What do you do when you can't stop the thing you're trying to fix?
Three returning guests sit down for one of the most honest conversations about public sector modernization we've had on the show.
From the latest on SF's 911 cloud migration, to what it means to modernize Harry Reid International Airport in real time while simultaneously designing the technology architecture for a second commercial airport 20 miles south, to Seguin's workforce transformation from one staff member with a degree and zero certifications in 2018 to 13 degrees and 27 certifications today - join us for this powerful conversation about leadership, community, and what it means to let others carry the message.
Michelle Geddes CIO San Francisco Department of Emergency Management
Rishma Khimji CITO Clark County Department of Aviation (Harry Reid International Airport) (now CIO Greater Orlando Aviation Authority)
Shane McDaniel CIO City of Seguin, TX | TAGITM Past President
(04:55) - The LinkedIn Banter Origin Story
(07:20) - Michelle: SF's 911 Cloud Journey & Hybrid Architecture
(09:25) - ESInet, Copper Lines Failing in LA & State Partnership
(11:14) - AI for Multilingual 911 Dispatch
(12:47) - Rishma: Harry Reid's Second Airport - 20 Miles South
(14:31) - Using General Aviation Airports as Innovation Labs (16:40) - Computer Vision at Checkpoints & the 3-Year Rolling Stack
(18:23) - Shane: Seguin's Workforce Story - 0 to 27 Certifications
(23:48) - The Amazon Warehouse Hire & The Best Buy Delivery Driver
(36:12) - TAGITM: The Solution Is in the Room
(39:13) - Leadership, Community & Letting Others Carry the Message
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Joe Toste: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Public Sector Show by TechTables. Super excited to have three returning guests coming on the show. Michelle Geddes, the CIO for the San Francisco Department of Emergency Management. Rishma Khimji, the Chief Information Technology Officer for Clark County Department of Aviation. Shane McDaniel, CIO for the city of Seguin and past president of TAGITM. Welcome y'all to the Public Sector Show by TechTables.
Michelle Geddes: Thank you. Thank you for having us.
Shane McDaniel: Let's do this.
Joe Toste: We're so excited to be here. I appreciate y'all. Yeah, we're gonna have a blast today. I'm really excited. It's been some time. I think Michelle all the way back. Michelle, I think I published 217 or 218 episodes and you came back on.
87, something like that. It was a while ago. Yeah. Give us an update for those who don't know you, tell us a little bit about yourself and, we'll kind of go around in the circle.
Michelle Geddes: Joe, it's great feedback and I just, I so appreciate you and the connections that I build with your introduction and I love your [00:01:00] show.
Yes, Michelle Geddes. I've been in my role with the San Francisco Department of Emergency Management for going on five years now. And I have spent a majority of my career working for the City and County of San Francisco, one of the most beautiful, innovative cities in the world, I will argue.
And then previous to that, I have spent some time in the. Private sector an engineer by trade and I've always really been involved with building mission critical highly resilient technology systems. So I've had a extensive career here in San Francisco and I look forward to hearing and learning from the other folks, the other panelists.
Joe Toste: Yeah, excited. We've got two. Super incredible women. Sorry Shane, uh, on the podcast today and fun fact, Michelle and I, I went up to San Francisco. She were leading a all women's conference or event, and then afterwards we hopped on, hopped in a Waymo together, and that was my first time and I was, very excited.
Had a [00:02:00] blast. In San Francisco fun times Rishma, catch us up. You've also, it's been a hot minute even though I see you, I feel like every month. Tell us a little bit about where you're at today.
Rishma Khimji: So, just wanna say hello to Michelle. It's been, oh my gosh, it's been a few years, but I'm so happy to see you and I've been following you on LinkedIn and you're just doing so fabulously and I'm such in awe of you and I miss you.
Mm-hmm. Um, just a little bit of a history: moved to Vegas three years ago for this, Chief Information Technology position at the Harry Reed International Airport and its four General Aviation Airports. I manage the technology portfolio for an airport of five. It's been a very blessed and amazing adventure learning the airport, airline business has just been amazing. It is so different than anything I've ever done. Previous to coming here, I was actually the CIO for the San Francisco Police Department, where I got to meet the [00:03:00] fabulous Michelle. And we got to have some great partnerships while I was at the, at PD, and then previous to that City of Reno and previous to that CIty of Albuquerque and then private sector before that. So a lot of government, public service sector years in my career, which I absolutely love and treasure. And I will say that Joe, after meeting you, and really putting myself out there even more- I've built an amazing community of people and like-mindedness.
People who really believe in public service, believe in the integrity of public service and more importantly, the accountability and transparency of the way we are implementing innovative technologies everywhere we go. And so hopefully that's a great lead in into your next panelist, Shane, because they've done some great things, in his hood as well.
Joe Toste: Right on cue Shane. Well. Why don't you give us a quick intro, Shane,
Shane McDaniel: thank you for the kind words. Rishma. Shane McDaniel, CIO for the city of Seguin, [00:04:00] Texas. Been in my role for about seven and a half years now. My career spans about 30 years, if y'all can believe that.
And Rishma, Michelle, I know what y'all are thinking, right? Like you don't look a day over 37. It's true. I'm pushing 50. Y'all. I've been doing this a long time. 15 years with the federal government. That's what the, uh, United States Air Force and then a government contractor about five years in private industry.
I had to go to private industry to realize that I was a public servant at heart. So I left that world about 10 years ago. I found Texas local government, born and raised in the middle of nowhere, east Texas. Uh, I cannot tell you what a privilege is to serve my fellow Texans in providing all the technology that we do for one of the fastest growing cities in the country.
So, uh, I am quoted many times on the internet saying that I'm the luckiest, luckiest CIO walking the face of the earth. I very much believe that. Quite fortunate to do what we do here in the city and to have the support and everything. So happy to be here today as well. It's an honor to be chatting with you folks.
So I'm ready, man. Let's do this.
Joe Toste: [00:05:00] So thank you Shane for that intro. I am very curious. How did the banter begin between you and Rishma on LinkedIn? What was the initial, how? How did this pop up?
Shane McDaniel: I don't think I'll remember, to be honest with you. Rishma, do you? I
Rishma Khimji: don't, no, I don't. I just know that Joe said something as always, and I don't know if it, I don't think it necessarily pitted us together against each other, but I think it.
Put us in line together about something to pick on Joe about. And so then we went after Joe together. That's all I remember,
Shane McDaniel: that worked for me. I confirm
Joe Toste: This is so funny. So I just released a podcast. Well, I didn't release it yet because the poor state of Nevada had a cyber attack, but I released a, snippet from it that was pretty funny.
I, during mid podcast dropped off. It was still recording and so the three CIOs on there were like, Hey, where did Joe go? Oh, Joe's gone? Oh, we should hose that guy right now. And so I love the banter. I, I, I take everything. All of my friends tend to also [00:06:00] hose me. You can see this happens on a very regular basis.
Rishma Khimji: But it's all done out of love, Joe. I don't think any of it has been malicious. And if you felt like it was, from my perspective, I'm so sorry, but it's all Shane's fault.
Joe Toste: It's all Shane's fault. I blame you for everything she was going there. Okay,
Michelle Geddes: so it's all, this is all public. This is all public on LinkedIn.
I, so I can see the banter and
Joe Toste: Yes. Yeah, I
Michelle Geddes: can add
Joe Toste: has
Rishma Khimji: always had my back. I'll say Shane has always had my back because there's been instances where Joe has like left out Poor Rishma from a particular conversation and Shane will just drag me right back in, which I absolutely love and adore. And then there are times where Joe has done that to Shane and I'm like, Hey, wait a minute.
We've gotta get Shane back into this too. So, you know, we've got each other's backs, which really, which is really heartwarming.
Shane McDaniel: Okay. Yeah.
Joe Toste: Yeah, it's pretty great. And Shane probably didn't pick up on this, but that's why I love podcasting. Kind of have this open forum a little bit and we'll get to the, we'll get to the real stuff.
I know people, everyone wants to share. When we, I was just in, uh, [00:07:00] in San Antonio. For the event that it was a Texas local government event where I was doing the podcast in person, and Shane points to the camera and is like, Hey, Rishma!, and says something. And what's, what you can't hear is the background of people who are like, who's Rishma? Like in the audience, like, live and this is happening.
I'm laughing. It was just too much. It was too funny. Okay, so we're gonna jump in. We're gonna jump into the podcast, the actual podcast. Michelle super excited. We'll kick, we'll kick off with you. We covered initially. The 9 1 1 system, emergency management system going to the cloud way back in the day.
Yeah. I think my first piece is, it's been about maybe two years since you've been on the podcast. What's the update on that for us?
Michelle Geddes: I know we are on the journey, we're on the long road to, yeah. To nine one one in, let's call it now, like more of a hybrid environment. So, yeah. So yeah, we're, I mean, San Francisco, we're the largest 9 1 1 center in Northern California.
We are the busiest call [00:08:00] center in Northern California. And we are very cautiously optimistic about, moving to the cloud, we are partnering very closely with the state of California who funds the 9 1 1 system for all of us for, there's four hundred and fifty 911 centers across the state.
And we are in their ear. We are working hand in hand with them to get this right. And so there have been some changes at the state level and we are. Working now with them on a more of a hybrid build out of 9 1 1 in the cloud, which I think is just sitting much better with the 450 PSAPs across the state of California.
And I think there was just a realization that moving completely to the cloud from the beginning and from the get go was, it's just taken a lot longer to get there. But we're well underway. We've got a, we've got a team selecting our vendor and we're, you know, within the next couple of years we're gonna be in that hybrid environment.
And then, so that's on the 9 1 [00:09:00] 1 side of things. And then we are also actively working a major transformational computer aided dispatch program. Partnering with our police department, our fire department, EMS, our transit agency, our sheriffs and we're well underway of getting to a next generation CAD technology, which we're super excited.
So lots has happened. A lot of work, but you know, we're well in a journey that's taking quite some time.
Joe Toste: Yeah, that's really great. And it probably should take a lot of time. I mean, this is like a very complex project where a lot of people are still relying on critical services to still happen while the modernization is happening at the same time.
Could you just maybe go a little bit, bit deeper on the complexity that is required and maybe the, collaboration that is required with so many other agencies, departments, funding, all that in there.
Michelle Geddes: 'Cause the state of California really sets the vision, sets the contractual, means towards getting new systems.
And so we as the [00:10:00] local municipality and the really, the boots on the ground experts on how the 9 1 1 needs to work in our environment. We have been sitting hand in hand with the state, sorting through all these technology challenges. And in California there's sort of two pieces to it.
The whole backend, the ESInet we call it, it's how we're getting away from the, you know, copper circuit switch foot telephony environment, moving to, a complete IP fiber, resilient backbone network. And so there's the whole ESInet program, that's well underway and I'm hoping to see some really big progress outta the state of California in the very near term.
I know, you know. Places like Los Angeles, they are pushing so hard to get onto this new backbone because their circuit Swiss technology is failing. People are stealing the copper lines. And so they need to get onto this new backbone. And, and in the northern California, you know, we don't have those same challenges and so we're really pushing for a thorough testing, ensuring that the calls are routed properly, ensuring that [00:11:00] there's a resilient, backups.
So, there's different agencies and different needs, and then, working, we have to work really closely with the state to lay out a path for each municipality. It's an ongoing process and, we're getting there. We're getting there.
Joe Toste: I love it.
My last, I've gotta ask, I've gotta ask, but my last follow up is what's your vision? I know it's gonna take some time, but where do you see. Maybe analytics or AI or augmented intelligence. I know Rishma might've picked that one up. Where do you see that going in the next couple years, especially in emergency management?
Michelle Geddes: I'll just stick with the land of the 9 1 1 call. You know, we get over a thousand a million calls for service in a given year. And we're a multicultural, multilingual city. And so, so many of our calls need translation, right? With this augmented reality, we're looking at the ability to get the 9 1 1 call in transcribe, translate it.
As quickly as possible so that we can serve our entire constituent [00:12:00] base as well as, our visitors, our, residents, travelers and so that, I see that in our very near future, which is super exciting. And then just, coalescing of all of the critical information that we need in order to get it to the first responder.
Being able to do that much more quickly. 'Cause seconds count when you're doing those dispatches. And so having that information at the fingertips and getting it out to the field is what I see is good. You know, AI is gonna be transformational in that regard.
Joe Toste: I love those two use cases. That first one actually, I had just interviewed the CIO for Clark County Bob Leek. And, this use case that he's looking at is, I think there are 27 different languages that get spoken across Las Vegas. And so, same thing with a million calls coming in multicultural.
That is a, is a fantastic use case. Rishma, you're preparing Harry Reid for a second airport. Is it the second airport? Second airport, 20 miles south. Did I get that right?
Rishma Khimji: Yep. Yep.
Joe Toste: Love it. How are you thinking about the roadmap, the strategy, [00:13:00] architecting the experience? Tell us a little bit more about how you're thinking about that.
Rishma Khimji: Yeah, so one of the great things, about Las Vegas is that we're a destination city, right? So people come to Vegas to see Vegas. They don't come here to transfer to another airline and go somewhere else. So we have, this amazing opportunity to really look at Las Vegas as the gateway to everything.
And so one of the things we are facing is capacity issues. How are we going to get all of our fabulous guests in and out of the airport in a way that allows them to have seamless journeys? And so we are building a second commercial airport that will supplement this airport. So right now it is called the Southern Nevada Supplemental Airport.
It is going through its EPA environmental impact study now. And once we get through that, then we have a few years or a number of years to get the airport built. So what we're looking at is building a terminal three, 20 miles south of us. So it'll be an extension of this [00:14:00] airport. So we're gonna have one Harry Reed International Airport, and we will have just two locations, terminal one and two here.
20 miles south will be terminal three. So there's a lot of things to consider in this, right? One is how do we ensure that we have a completely safeguarded, segregated, and redundant infrastructure between the two facilities? I can do that here because I'm within a campus, right? How am I gonna do that with a facility 20 miles south of us?
So there's a lot that we have to look into as we're looking at how do we build out the infrastructure for network. What are we gonna do it for? You know, redundancy? Are we gonna look at other types of networks to add into the infrastructure? What is that gonna look like? So one of the cool things is that we actually have General Aviation Airport.
So these are the North Las Vegas airport and the Henderson Executive Airport, which are our non-commercial airports. These are where all the private [00:15:00] flights come into, right. The Golden Knights have a hangar and they have their planes there. The Raiders have their planes there. Then at North Las Vegas, we have, flight schools, local pilots who have their planes there, things like that.
So we're actually gonna start using these facilities as innovation hubs and labs so we can put in technologies there to start testing out what is this gonna look like if I have to do microwave back haul, how am I gonna do that? Where am I gonna do that? What kinda technologies am I gonna to use? So that's a really cool thing that we're really looking into and thinking about.
One of the other things that we're really starting to investigate is private LTE. So private cellular, how are we gonna use that to help us do the things we need to do? Our campus airport campus is a lot of concrete, so we have a lot of dead spaces. So how are we going to add a new, network spectrum into our infrastructure and what is that gonna look like?
So that, that is something that's a lot of fun, but when it really comes to [00:16:00] looking at the guest services and how are we going to put the guest needs first in this new airport. We're actually modernizing our current airport now, so Harry Reid is going through this massive modernization effort over the next five to seven years.
We're doing a lot of construction, building out new spaces, and so we are following that strategy and putting in a transformation strategy as for the modernization of our technologies. So we're looking at our technology stack. What do we need to modernize and upgrade there? Let's look at all of our tool sets.
What do we need to do to upgrade those? And while we're at it, let's use the entire airport as an innovation lab and test out new technologies as well. So one of the cool things we just rolled out last month was we are now able to see checkpoint wait times. And we're using AI for that. We're using new technologies for that. We're using computer visioning for that. We're also using what we already have in place or leveraging some of the current technologies we have.
So one of the [00:17:00] strategies I've put into place here that my teams have just adapted and adopted to is, let's look at what we have. Let's modernize what we need to and really get the foundations of our technologies right? And then let's play around with it. See what we can do to expand, extend, augment the services.
Where can we put in some new tool sets with AI, computer visioning, language models, data analysis. This, that kind of stuff to help us be that much more in the forefront of decision making. And then move on from there. And then that gives us a portfolio of technologies we can start looking at putting into the new airport.
That new airport is a 2035, 2037 rollout, go live opening, right? So that's quite a few years out, but it gives us the opportunity to really look at those technologies. I don't wanna forecast something 10 years out. I'd rather do this in a three year rolling stack so that every three years we're kind of looking at what else is there.
But if we can build out the infrastructure that is future forward, that is really helping [00:18:00] us look at new ways of incorporating new spectrum, then we'll be in better alignment with the new airport when it comes out.
Joe Toste: Well, I'm looking forward to that. Go live rollout I've had a chance to visit your office, with you and the team, which was cool.
But anytime I stop in the Las Vegas airport, I always think about just knocking on the door, knowing that most likely they won't let me in, but I could Yeah. Just text you. Uh, yeah. Shane wanted to jump over to you. You've helped been building out Seguin's cybersecurity program.
We talked about this on the podcast, but I just think it's like such a great story to retell as far as, not having a whole lot of budget in Seguin, but really upskilling the workforce. Walk us through, that vision of you being the head cheerleader and just championing personal development for your team.
Shane McDaniel: It's true. Any, I believe any success that we attain here in this organization is, is contingent on the individuals and building them up and preparing them for those future roles and just getting the, culture to the point where we believe we can [00:19:00] accomplish absolutely anything if we put our mind to it.
Right. And that's just an internal wiring. As far as, who I am as a person and, just through time and you build that confidence and you gain those experiences and you have those setbacks and you one of the things I say is. You get knocked down 10 times, you get up 11.
Right? And so that's the mindset I want very tough people, creative, curious, driven, and, we try to suss all that out whenever we hire and whatnot. But it's been an interesting challenge. We're 30 miles outside of San Antonio we are in a traditionally, historically rural area.
And so, finding talent, I'll give you an example. I came from the city of McKinney up in the Dallas area, which is part of proper Dallas or the greater Dallas area. And um, whenever I had an open position up there, I'd get 120 plus applicants for every single role that would be passed through HR.
No telling how many people actually applied When I first started here, we were fortunate to get 10 applicants per an open position. My department [00:20:00] has more than doubled in the time that I've been here because we are one of the fastest growing cities in the country. People are flocking here. I got 60 subdivisions and 19,000 homes in the process of development just in the city limits.
There's more outside in the county. People have found Seguin this region and they're flocking here. So we're being hit with that growth as well. We made a huge investment in people. More than half my staff graduated from the local school districts here. I think more than half of 'em, they have no professional experience outside of this organization.
That's okay though because we made that investment. One of the first things that I fought for whenever I arrived was, I gradually bumped up our training and travel and our educational budget essentially. So tasking the folks to go out and, we need to learn this technology.
We've completely replaced our entire infrastructure. So extreme Networks is a good example. We were an HP network prior to that. Well, we bring in the new technology, we gotta get folks [00:21:00] certified. We gotta get folks trained up to manage that network whenever we take ownership of it. So, getting folks ready and just having that mindset, right?
We stood up a certification reimbursement program. We stood up an internship. We've hired every single intern that we've brought in into full-time positions, some of which have been promoted three times since I've been here. We've done 17 promotions internally. I'm so proud of the fact, and I think kind of what you were alluding to on that previous podcast, when I started here in 2018, I had one person on staff with a four-year degree and zero industry certification.
Today that number is 13 degrees and 27 certifications spread across the entire department of 15 people. I'm so proud of that, and that's how we've gotten to the point where we just keep promoting internal people and 99% of the time we hire someone at the entry level where credentials matter less, experience matters less.
We've given plenty of people opportunities and chances and we're really trying to [00:22:00] find that right mindset of we can train someone to do anything we want them to do. If you got that right mindset, that's all we need. And so literally right now, for the first time in six years, we're actually, we created a new position and we're hiring someone at the, what I call the tier two level, kind of like a mid-level career.
And so, that's the first time we haven't promoted internally in six years. So it's very hard to get your foot in the door in this organization, which has led to some wonderful things like the awards and all the positivity and whatnot. And not only that, but. I mentioned, I was lucky to get 10 applicants for every open position.
a few years ago. Today, I've received something like 55 for that current one that we have. So like just that, that culture that was built, that, you know, all the positivity, it's led to more folks wanting to be a part of what's happening here with technology. I'm so proud of it and it all goes to those folks that they're across the hallway from me.
I give 'em all the credit in the world. Those folks are a bunch of all stars, and I'm fortunate to be that head cheerleader [00:23:00] for.
Joe Toste: I love that and I love that phrase head, head cheerleader. So good. Especially when Shane is a big guy, so like, when you stand next to him, like he, he makes you feel safe. He, you get like the warm and fuzzies, like, he's not wearing his Texas hat today, but normally he is.
And, uh, yeah I get the head cheerleader.
Michelle Geddes: I, it's so interesting hearing Shane your perspective because, with the talent, like in San Francisco, it's a little, it's a little nuanced in that it's hard for us to attract those like-minded individuals because they can go to the private sector and be very successful in this area.
But we have a phrase we've turned, in the public sector you choose a career with purpose. And so we really have to lead with, you know, it's a very, it's a very important mission, purposeful engagement and that's how we attract talent.
Shane McDaniel: Well, I'll tell you what, Michelle you know, I have some stories that I just absolutely love of folks on this team.
There was a guy that was stocking shelves at a Amazon warehouse down the road from us. Had a degree in, [00:24:00] IT from University of South Florida, and his family relocated here and he was having trouble getting an IT position here locally. We took a chance on him. That's the guy that's been promoted three times.
Yeah. He's such a stud. He just needed someone to give him that chance. There was a guy that delivered a TV from Best Buy to my house like three, four years ago. I liked that guy so much. Like he was proactive. He communicated. I was like, Hey, I'm running 30 minutes late. I just wanted to let you know.
No worries, dude. And, I got to know him a little bit whenever he was installing that TV and I was like, Hey man, we're always looking for new talent. I don't have a position right now, but I, next time I have an entry level position, I wanna give you a call. Mm-hmm. And, uh, I gave him my card and we kept in contact and sure enough, six, nine months later, something became available.
And I was like, you should apply dude. And, uh, that's another guy that's been promoted a couple of times. He just needed someone to give him that chance. I do sell local government, our pension, our benefits, our balance, things like, mm-hmm. Uh, I haven't, I don't have a turnover problem. I haven't seen that, but I also don't have the [00:25:00] big tech companies right outside my door either, like you're dealing with there probably in Vegas too, right?
Mm-hmm. So, um, yeah, we don't have that competition.
Rishma Khimji: Yeah. Here we're competing with the resorts, which makes it a little hard because, you know. The bonuses are great if they are able to fill the numbers and all that good stuff, but, what we do here is right, we create an ambassador program. So we are all ambassadors of the airport and, we have to cheerlead our airport and, make it a fun place to work.
And really, it is a fun, I love my job. I love my job, I love my team. And I hope the team loves all the things we've been doing over the past three years. But we're really saying, Hey, if we want to attract really good people to come and work with us and for us we have to like what we're doing, first of all, mm-hmm. And if we don't like what we're doing, let's figure that out. Let's put you in a place where you are going to be successful. 'Cause if you're just doing a job just for the sake of doing the job, then that's not gonna help any of us. Let's make sure you're in a place of success and how do we [00:26:00] get you there.
So we've done a lot of internal moves to put people into those right? Into the right places. Maybe they just weren't using their skill sets appropriately in the positions that they were at, just because through, you know, normal attrition and, moving and growing and all that stuff, they just kept moving up the chain, the ladder and, it wasn't the right fit for them.
So we did a lot of internal reorgs. We looked at, where their strengths were, put them into those new roles or created roles for them. And now they are thriving. And because they are thriving, they are now talking about what a great place and how supportive it is to be in a place like this to work.
And so when we do have positions that are open, we are getting, 50 to a hundred applicants per position now. We have to be our own cheerleaders as well. And we have to be ambassadors of our organizations. And I love that, Shane, you're the head cheerleader because that's honestly what we all have to do.
Michelle lives by her code all the time. I know she does. I've seen her do it right. She lives with the purpose. She does her job for a purpose and she's [00:27:00] doing it for the people of San Francisco. And here at the airport, we're doing it for our guests, we wanna make sure that our guests are coming through and, and having a
seamless journey because travel is one of the most anxiety-inducing activities a person can go through. They can be completely sane and normal. They walk through the doors in an airport and all logic goes out the door. There's so much anxiety when it comes to travel and we've gotta make sure that we're able to center them and get them through the process in a way that is safe for them and safe for other guests and, just get them through.
Joe Toste: I didn't even think about that, but probably 'cause I travel so much. But yeah, especially Las Vegas is a huge airport. If anyone's listening and you've been to the Santa Barbara airport, you realize you just walk on. It's kind of awesome. There's, you leave your car in the lot and it's a hot, like two minute walk.
We're building a second building. Can you believe that Rishma? We're building a second building in Santa Barbara. I know it's big time.
Michelle Geddes: I'm so interested to see how. Like how, what the messaging is gonna be around this new facility. 'cause I could just picture [00:28:00] myself booking a trip to Las Vegas and then I end up 30 miles outside of the city being like, how do I get to the Wynn?
Rishma Khimji: Yeah. And you know, Michelle, that's a great point. And we're already having those conversations, right? Because there isn't there isn't a huge transportation model between the two facilities already built, right? Like the roads Yeah. And the freeways and the highways. Like how are we doing that? So we're building partnerships with autonomous vehicles and saying, Hey, how are we going to do this?
We're looking at how do we use these new technologies that are coming out, right? There's the Boring Company drilling holes all underneath Las Vegas, right? What is that gonna look like? Is that gonna help promote transportation? But really the messaging we want to have in the end is whether you're at terminal one, two, or three, you're still part of the Harry Reid International Airport System.
You're still part of that airport, and you will be able to get to your destination seamlessly. You may just be on a train, a bus, a taxi and Uber. Whatever that mechanism is going to be, [00:29:00] it's still going to be available to you. So we're making this more of a packaged outlook then just a building, right?
We understand and we have to make sure that our guests are gonna get to where they need to get to.
Michelle Geddes: Yeah, I wish the San Francisco Bay area would've thought, wait, is that the Oakland As we Oakland, there's no way to get from SFO to San Jose. Oakland actually just tried to rebrand their airport to the San Francisco Bay.
I know that was,
Rishma Khimji: yes.
Michelle Geddes: That
Rishma Khimji: didn't go anywhere, actually. Quite fabulous. Kyle is actually quite fabulous. Um, you know, he, he's got a really great story too, but, um, yeah. It's, it's interesting what airports go. We rebranded as well three years ago. We went from the McCarran Airport to the Harry Reid airport, and that's, it's still taking us, it's still taking years of saying Harry Reid over and over again for people to like, to catch on that.
That's what that is. I tell people the M word is the dirty word. We're not allowed to say it anymore. It's a bad word. And if they say it, they're gonna owe me money because I can always buy a new pair of [00:30:00] shoes. So it's like I, Venmo, PayPal, all those things. Uh, just don't say the M word around me. So
Joe Toste: the M word I have an idea.
We all visit Rishma in seven years from now. When this thing's really done and we all hop in, we'll fly. We're gonna land 30 miles out and we're gonna test the experience. Maybe a Waymo picks us up, I don't know.
Michelle Geddes: Yeah.
Joe Toste: Or some, exactly.
Michelle Geddes: Yep.
Joe Toste: Exactly. And uh, and then we can tell Rishma the experience. If she's
Rishma Khimji: still there, I'll come with you with, I'll meet you there
Joe Toste: with
Rishma Khimji: I'll come with you.
Joe Toste: Yeah, you come with us. Yep. Uh, okay. I think we've broadly hit on this, but I think just kind of closing thoughts on, I think when the leader gets better, everyone in the organization gets better. Love to hear Michelle, we can kick off with you.
What does leadership mean to you? What does what does collaboration mean to you? In the context of driving the mission forward?
Michelle Geddes: Oh, man. Yeah, lead by example. I feel like in order to be effective as a leader, my goal is just building relationships, building trust, and then [00:31:00] sort of aligning everyone on a common goal and then chipping away at getting there. But I mean, relationship building. Picking up the phone, calling whomever it needs to be in order to move the needle on whatever my team is working on is so important.
And that's the way that I feel like I'm the most effective is this, if I am engaging and then helping my team break down barriers by building relationships, especially where we sit in the world that I live in. And the Department of Emergency Management in San Francisco is really like a, we manage emergencies.
We have to collaborate across multiple departments, you know, police, Rishma, remember? Dealing with the police department, the fire department, the sheriff's department, centralized IT. I mean, it's a, constant just moving of or trying to align on everybody's different needs and wants, and then,
slowly and methodically chipping away and getting there. And so, I lead by example and I lead by building [00:32:00] relationships and building trust with my partners.
Joe Toste: I love that. And that's probably, that's the blueprint for success in a lot of things in life. Rishma. Yeah, I'd love to hear leadership, collaboration, what that means
for your agency?
Rishma Khimji: So for us, and for me, really leadership, and this adds on to what Michelle is saying, right? For us, it's community. For me, it's community. So whether in the moment I have the title, which is great, and all that means I have some type of respect and trust built into all that, which is fabulous.
But that doesn't mean I have to be the voice that centers the message all the time. Right? And so having a community within my leadership group means that I can delegate or I can have others take on that role and that responsibility because Influence is not just about who you are, it's about who you let carry the message as well.
And, sometimes people are just gonna hear messages differently from other people. And so one to [00:33:00] have that community center, to have, you know, a centered mind, it's that we all speak the same language. So me and all of my, so the directors that report to me, the managers that report up the line, right?
We all have to make sure, one, we're speaking the same language and we're saying the same things. But then it's letting them go out and having those conversations with their peers and and so forth, because if we're all centering the same message out to the world. About what our mission is, what our strategy is, what our customer service expectations are, what we are here to do, how we were here to help everybody.
Then that message is going to filter better across the organization and it's gonna lend itself well to the organization itself, right? So it's gonna allow it to have better serviceability and trust with everybody throughout the organization. And so for me, leadership is not just having the role, being the role, it is also ensuring that there is a sense of community amongst us, that we have each other's backs, that [00:34:00] we trust each other, and we are able to speak the same language and go out and service those that need it from us the most.
Joe Toste: Love that. Shane, leadership, collaboration. And then after that, just a short plug for TAG.
Shane McDaniel: Okay. Leadership and collaboration. I think the success, any success that we have here in this organization is predicated on authenticity. You know, I, I've lived and worked all over the country, all over the world throughout my 30 year career, almost 30 years.
And, um, I do believe this organization is very, very reflective of the community that we serve. Blue collar folks, we're a manufacturing city. That's what drives this region is that sort of mindset. And our, I, I love the fact that our organization is kind of wired that same way to include my IT department.
So, uh, that authenticity. We are a very relationship driven organization. I find that to be accurate across the state of Texas and local government as compared to some of my experience with the feds and then private [00:35:00] industry. So relationships are anything and everything and what we do, I have to have those relationships with my staff.
With my fellow department heads, city management, our council mayor, all incredibly wonderful people trying to drive this community forward and all the good things that are happening. So I, find that authenticity, that's the one thing about rural folks, man, like, they can see right through you.
You better not, you know, be fake. Don't try to be something that you're not. 'cause they'll call you out on it. I just find that, it just so happens me being from a, you know, a farming type of, household and, and that sort of thing there in East Texas, like my upbringing and just who I am as a person, I've always felt like.
I don't know if you can put me in a better situation for who I am, you know, all the innovative things, all the cool things that happen here. Just sort of marrying high-end technology with that sort of community. And you see what happens. All the cool stuff. And we're very proud of being one of the most recognized as one of the most innovative cities in the country.
And that's all done with like regular folks, right? [00:36:00] So we're very proud of that and, uh, that, that's kind of just a fundamental belief. I consider myself so fortunate to have been here for a few years and to understand that and just makes my life so easy dealing with everyone. And TAGITM when I started in Texas, local government about 10 years ago.
I got invited to, attend that annual event. It's a year round thing, but the annual event is the, the big to-do. And, uh, it, this is literally what happened. I was with the city of McKinney up in the Dallas area, my CIO up there who was a mentor and became a friend over years and whatnot. He sent me to it like that first year, and I'll walk through the doors.
I realized almost immediately, like, my God, I found my people right, like a bunch of good old boys and gals, maybe staying up too late, hanging at the bar too long, just talking technology or having a good time. I am made for things like that, right? So I just kind of like, it was almost easy, to fit in and just build those relationships, that rapport with my peers across the state of Texas as well as, [00:37:00] uh, the neighboring states that we always tell 'em we're not gonna change the name, but you guys can come hang out with us.
We're, it's Texas you know, we can't do that. So TAGITM has been invaluable to my 10 years in this world. I didn't come up in local government. I've only been doing it the last decade. There are some things still in city government that I don't, I can't necessarily connect those dots. I, I don't have that fundamental understanding as it, you know, like if my career would've been in this space the entire time. But, uh, that's what TAGITM does. What we tell people is the solution is in the room. So essentially I just have to have those relationships. I never have to reinvent the wheel. I just need to have like my finger on the pulse because somebody out there has either done something smarter, better, faster, more efficient, saved money, whatever.
I just need to know who that was. Track 'em down because mm-hmm. Another thing that I've found in local government is I bet you if I called Rishma's office, she would either pick up or call me back as compared to my [00:38:00] time with the feds or private industry. I'm a former Dell employee, right? And this is the example I always provide.
If HP called over to our office at Dell and they were like, Hey, how are you guys doing this? Be like, why are you calling me? What in the world? And you hang up, right? And local government is the exact opposite. We are very collaborative. We help each other. TAGITM is just kind of the engine for that here in the state of Texas.
Michelle Geddes: How do I become a member?
Shane McDaniel: You just give Shane a call. Do I have to
Michelle Geddes: move?
Shane McDaniel: So, uh, my presidency just ended a few months ago at the annual event, but we have a management organization that kind of oversees and they're, wonderful folks and, but they just, they deal with a lot of nonsense for me.
Right. I was giving out passes and letting so many people, I was like, Hey, let them in. You know? . Just take care of it. We did like a eighties concert. We had the Spasmatic come in, so like I was trying to get as many people as I possibly could. We blew out the all time attendance record.
We had 1100 people at that event that Joe was at a couple of months ago. Just another cool thing, just seeing that grow here over the past few [00:39:00] years and, it's pretty awesome, man.
Rishma Khimji: Michelle, we need to do a San Francisco meetup in, uh, it looks like in Texas at the, at the next TAGITM.
Shane McDaniel: Come on down with the cool kids.
Michelle Geddes: Maybe I'll take
Joe Toste: a Waymo
Michelle Geddes: there.
Joe Toste: Past that airport they're building. So before we jump, and I, and I really appreciate everyone jumping on today. I know we talked about on the podcast a lot on the, leadership front, the human front. Sometimes I get, wow, Joe, it's just not technical enough. Sometimes I get Joe. It's just, it's not deep enough.
And so my response to everyone is I coach high school basketball and before every game you draw the plays up and if the team is not aligned, if the relationships for the high school kids are not aligned. The game plan falls apart so fast and, uh, the exact same thing happens in technology organizations.
And if the people are not aligned, I don't care what roadmap you have, that thing will collapse. And so, gonna keep hammering home the importance of leadership. Collaboration and cross state collaboration. This is super awesome. I loved [00:40:00] how this came together for today's episode. Thank you all for coming on the show today.
Appreciate you.
Rishma Khimji: I am honored to be here with all of these fabulous people. Thank you, Joe, for putting me in this, in this podcast.
Michelle Geddes: Yes!