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What does it look like when local government IT gets it right?
Seguin's Shane McDaniel turned two new positions into five internal promotions and 27 innovation awards by betting on his people first. Port Houston's James O'Brien grew a two-person team into a high-trust, hybrid culture supporting 450 employees. Flower Mound's Jose Mendez built a "trust but verify" accountability framework that keeps stakeholders confident and outcomes measurable. And Dell's Ted Gruenloh makes the case that authentic vendor partnerships — not sales tactics — are what actually close deals and keep them closed.
Together, they explore why servant leadership, homegrown talent, and communities like TAG are fueling Texas' award-winning IT culture — and why every public sector leader in the country should be paying attention.
Shane McDaniel, CIO, City of Seguin & 2025 TAGITM President
James O’Brien, Information Security Officer, Port Houston (& 2026 TAGITM President)
Jose Mendez, IT Director, Town of Flower Mound
Ted Gruenloh, CEO, Nomic Networks
(00:32) Why Texas IT Leaders Choose Public Service — Finding Purpose and Calling
(07:00) From Keyboard Warrior to Strategic Leader – James O’Brien’s Leadership Evolution
(10:00) Trust Nothing, Verify Everything – Jose Mendez’s Accountability Framework
(15:00) 27 Innovation Awards – How Seguin Built a Winning IT Culture from Within
(19:00) 2 New Positions, 5 Promotions – Shane McDaniel’s Talent Development Strategy
(23:00) 13 of 17 Deals Closed – Ted Gruenloh on Authentic Vendor Partnerships
(30:06) Funny Moment – Justin Cure and Rishma Khimji Bring Some Texas Humor
(32:59) 450 Employees, 2 IT Staff – How TAG Became James O’Brien’s Lifeline
(33:00) Building Trust in Hybrid Work – Port Houston’s Communication Playbook
(40:00) Looking Ahead to TAGITM 2026 – Why Texas Values Drive IT Excellence
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Joe Toste: Welcome to the Public Sector Show by TechTables. Super excited to have you all on. Let's kick off with our President of TAGIT
Shane McDaniel: Shane McDaniel, CIO, for the beautiful city of Seguin, Texas 21st fastest growing city in the country.
A lot of amazing things happening with innovation and whatnot there. I also have the great privilege of serving as TAGIT president elected by membership. One of the greatest honors in my career. [00:01:00] All told about 30 years working in Tech First 15 Air Force government contractor, a few years in private industry.
Started in local government, Texas, local government about 10 years ago, and if I have my way, this is how I'm gonna finish up and just ride into the sunset.
I love it. So
Joe Toste: what would you say in the last podcast you were, you tried private industry to find your true calling in public sector?
Shane McDaniel: Absolutely. So there's a, there's an article out right now. It came out April 1st, if I'm not mistaken. Ironic enough. April Fool's Day that really tells the story and just a snapshot. The day before I turned 40 years old, I was in corporate America, middle management, I had employees all over the world.
Cyber. I was the North American cybersecurity manager for fortune 500. And so we did follow the sun, all that stuff. I was, making more money than ever thought I'd make in my life, but I just wasn't happy and it wasn't anything to do with the company per se, or the people I worked with were awesome.
Just I, different countries, different cultures, different religions. We did quite well together. But I [00:02:00] realized after 15 years in the federal government, military, and then I go to private industry for a few years, and I always, enjoyed what I was doing and the people I was with. But something was missing.
And I always used the example, I spent time with Dell when I was with Dell. Michael Dell was like the 18th richest guy in the world. And I was like, everything that we're doing here is to make him potentially the 17th richest guy in the world. There's nothing wrong with that, right? It just doesn't resonate in my soul.
So the day before I turned 40 years old, I put in my notice without really anything lined up, and I'd hoped I had invested enough in my credentials, my experience, to do something that was more in line with who I am as a person. And landed in Texas local government. That was almost 10 years ago now.
And I'm so happy it's worked out the way that it has. And like I mentioned in the previous podcast, I'll walk around saying that I'm the luckiest CIO walking the face of the earth. I wake up with a smile on my face. I work with the most awesome people. These guys are all right too, but no, these guys are great.
So I'm so fortunate to [00:03:00] know and the gratitude I have from those experiences. So that's why I am so passionate about Texas local government.
Joe Toste: I'm only laughing because I told you I was younger than you. We talked about this in the last podcast. I wanna see your newest license too. You told me 40 plus 10.
So Yeah,
Jose Mendez: I, some of the math didn't add up there too. Yeah, that
Shane McDaniel: math ain't math. It ain't, Hey man. East Texas Public school. Grain of salt, dude.
Joe Toste: Jose.
Jose Mendez: Yeah, absolutely. Jose Mendez. I'm the IT director for the Town of Flower Mound in North DFW. I've been doing local government for the last eight years.
Kind of really fell into it, so I don't have the same experience that Shane did. I got into it knowing nothing about local government, it, but I'm fascinated by just the inner workings, the departments, the connections, the ability to impact people's lives, day to day stuff that really you don't see anywhere else except for Michael Dell's private plane and paying those dividends.
But I, before that I was at a MSP and doing it work for a lot of small companies. And then I had a stint in local government, and I've been doing this again two decades. [00:04:00] Have previously served as an IT director at a growing city. Did you name S as 21? That was a number 21. Yes, number 21.
So I think Salina is number one or two in terms of growth. No big deal. Yeah. Humble brag. I. 20 to be proud of the 21st. There's 20 of you ahead of you. But it is a, it's a key, it's a growing city. It's 10,000 people a year. Had to really plan and focus on the future, and that really set me up for success.
I think that for me, cut my teeth on local government and looking at solutions holistically, not from just a business perspective, but from a management, administration perspective of what, how can I be kind to future Jose? And future solina future organization. From there I and I know I'm jumping around a little bit, but I spent some time as a cybersecurity expert in the city of Irving, and I had the benefit of having some very good relationships with a gentleman who's on this podcast, Ted, previously, but also others that helped me understand that I knew nothing about SEC security and to explore more in myself and solutions.
[00:05:00] Technology and really like dive deep and be uncomfortable, stay uncomfortable. So a little bit about me
Joe Toste: there. Yeah, a little bit. Do you collab with Melissa and Frisco at all?
Jose Mendez: So Frisco is what I call the preeminent local government organization. We've, I talked to Steve LeBla and Greg gis he's a cybersecurity, I think he's a CIO there now.
Okay. Very wise. He, they've got a lot of support. Yeah. And so I call, I feel like they are the ones that are really pushing the boundary of local government where most people might not want to go. So I don't collaborate too much with 'em. I just hired someone away from them, actually. So I think much less now.
Joe Toste: That's so funny. I wasn't asking. I talked to her and she was trying to make it here. She couldn't unfortunately. But yeah I think I just geographically thought you guys were pretty close.
Jose Mendez: We're not too far away. They're about 30 minutes away, but yeah. And they're significantly much larger.
Flower Mountain's, 80,000, 81,000 we're, our build out's gonna be one 20. I think Frisco right now is one 60. And I think for the first time ever, people are finally leaving [00:06:00] Frisco. We can normally, they drive in and go there, so they, and they've got a lot and they've got just a lot of available options for residents.
They're in a very unique spot, and I think we all look to them to help us navigate this unknown world sometimes.
James O'Brien: Yeah.
Joe Toste: Love
James O'Brien: it. James? So James O'Brien. I'm the Information Security Officer with Port Houston. My tenure started in 2009 for municipalities and local government and having a servant heart just fell in love with it.
It's not about selling widgets and gadgets, nothing against that space. But it's not for, we do not sell widgets no. Yeah. Gadgets. It's all good, gadget. Sure. I'll take gats, I'll take gadgets. So having such a servant heart, serving the public, serving citizens the customers, whatever you want to label it as.
Just where my passion fell, like Shane. He was drawn to it. I was in private sector for a while and just didn't find my place that I was happy. So once I stumbled into City of Tech City I was like, this is where I belong.
Shane McDaniel: I love that. [00:07:00] Like one of the cornerstones that I tell people a native Texan serving my fellow Texans.
That means so much to me. Not many people understand like some of the craziness with technology or cybersecurity, what have you. It's all good, y'all. I got y'all's back. I'm happy to, I'm honored to do this on your behalf, so like that's my gift to my community or what I believe in my head at least.
Like giving back and just watching their backs.
Ted Gruenloh: Yeah. Love that, Ted. Yeah. Yeah, so Ted Glo, CEO of no networks. We're a vendor, so I'm the vendor sitting here on, at the table. But what's interesting is you guys all talked about the servant heart, and what I'm hoping is when I say this, I'll get subtle nods of agreement and not like subtle nos when I say this, but our organization is like purpose built to serve what you guys are talking about.
And honestly, I wouldn't be doing it if. If it was the Michael Dell philosophy, right? It does, that doesn't resonate with me. So what resonates with me is helping lean IT teams, helping out building solutions that are easy to use for smaller [00:08:00] organizations, that sort of thing. Don't wanna make it a product pitch, but the, but that's what, that's why we're here.
That's why we're at tags, why we're involved. And it's why I would consider these guys friends. So yeah, that's,
Joe Toste: I love that. I feel like I need to give myself an intro right now too. So I love the mission part. I talk a lot about, I've got this podcast and I kinda laugh at people.
'cause most folks have never run a business. And so they'll be like you're in the private sector. I'm like, dude, I'm one person. Come on. I'm like, it's not AWS all right. Let's be real. Okay. One person, small business owner long before TechTables exist existed, I've been coaching high school basketball, right?
So I've been going to campus, and then some people are like, oh, so I can coach your kids little league, your kids' little league team. And I'm like, so different sports, so let's just get that and high school, right? But just being on campus, like being with the kids, like K through 12, like you, that, that's it.
And at least in Cal and I live in southern California, a lot of kids get an iPad right. And he was so interesting to me when the intersection between. Hardware, software, even simple things like, you talk about cybersecurity. I'm in the locker room before the game [00:09:00] and the kids are, messing around on the network and I'm going, guys, you know what's being tracked, right?
And they're like, what you mean? I'm like, so DP High School is a part of the scene. I remember Unified school district, and they have this guy who's the CTO and they're like. What? Yeah, it was just so funny to see like all that, like their eyes just rolling and coming together. But yeah, same thing. Like I literally make almost $0.
Coach 'em they give you a stipend some years and some years it comes in the mail. 12 months later. So you just are like, this is just Christmas money. Not
Ted Gruenloh: why you're doing it. Yeah.
Joe Toste: You don't show up at all labor of love. Yes. It's the passion for Yeah, it's passion for it.
People love it and a hundred percent right. And like investing in the kids and just so fun. So that's the part of like public sector that I love and TechTables allows me the flexibility to be able to do that. So I love the mission part. Cause even sometimes for folks in public sector where there's a little bit of pushback. I'm like, dude, I don't even really get paid for this. All right. I am public sector lemme tell you. So I'm very excited about this podcast. I've talked to a lot of people who you know, who have [00:10:00] just, it's not often that you get the CEO of the company to come on, which I think is a testament.
Could have sent a sales rep, maybe a sales engineer.
Ted Gruenloh: Yeah. Same though, as you said about running an organization like the whole CEO thing, it's okay, man. Like I'm not, we're not Fortune 500. Like it's okay. Like just, I got your title, but thanks though, chief Everything Officer. There you go.
There you go. That's exactly right. Yeah.
Jose Mendez: I did have to ask him. How did you like to be addressed? Can I
Joe Toste: just call you
Jose Mendez: Ted? Yeah. And I couldn't even answer the question. You can.
Joe Toste: Yeah. Ted so Ted's team, they got some cool swag. I've got, yeah, I've got this one. Nun shall pass.
Shane McDaniel: Yeah.
Joe Toste: Did we see that?
Did we see that? Did we see that? Yeah, we see that Tim. Okay.
Shane McDaniel: Are you gonna cut the sleeves off of that? What about this one? Did you pay him to them? Nice. Nice. And this is our sponsor break. There we go. Yeah, this is our sponsor break brought to you by, I feel like this was planned. Maybe.
I don't know. It could have been. No, this is completely spontaneous. Spontaneous. How about that? You
Joe Toste: just left that out. Oh yeah.
Ted Gruenloh: Because your teachers don't, isn't that a great t-shirt
Joe Toste: by the way? It's a great
Ted Gruenloh: t-shirt workout. Like the brand and the like. It's a great t-shirt. Yeah, it's a great t-shirt.
Joe Toste: Alright, James, I kick off with you. During our prep [00:11:00] call, you mentioned that leadership is about. Finding the nuggets from mentors rather than copying someone else's entire style. What's your process for identifying those leadership nuggets worth adopting and how has that shaped your approach at Port Houston?
James O'Brien: I don't know if there's a necessarily a style, but it just, you have to be intentionally listening. Like our keynote this morning, there was some great nuggets out of that I'm already like, how do I plug this in the 20 20 20 world? Instead of going A to Z on a project, go Z to A, what's that smiley face at the end that you wanna get to and build it backwards.
Joe Toste: Hold on, explain the 2020 E for those who are listening and the Z to A.
James O'Brien: So the 20 20 20 rule was the human attention span is technically less than a goldfish. I'm sorry, can you start over? Yeah, you lost me. Yeah, you lost me already. Come on back. Let me get the hook. Okay. Lemme get that hook second.
I got it. Yeah. Okay. I'm there. I'm there. And it was, we're more effective working 20 minutes and then taking a one minute break and then come [00:12:00] back, work 20 minute. It's building that little bit of habit, so that way you sit there and you say, I'm gonna work four hours, 20 minutes into it. You're finding your phone, you're finding an email, you're doing something else that's distracting.
So how do you be more productive in what you do and more focused? So the gentleman talked about the 20 20 20 rule, and I was like, that's a good little nugget. So it's the approach is actively listening and being willing to hear something new. ' cause I don't have it all figured out. I'm, every day I'm a student in some way, whether it's talking to a friend, family a mentor industry partner, that's friends.
Like those things come about by having the relationships and just being intentional about it. Like I always want to improve myself 'cause I know I got, I want to be better than yesterday, and how do I do that? I have to be intentional in whatever it is with myself and what I'm doing to be better. And
Joe Toste: you're teachable because, 'cause you told me offline that someone told you to trim your beard, right?
Yes. Said you need to trim it up. Yeah. [00:13:00] Yes.
Ted Gruenloh: What I always like to say is reachable and teachable. We can cover this a little bit, but being teachable as a leader, being teachable, that reflects right back on your team, right? If your team sees that in you,
James O'Brien: yes. That's like goal because they want to know that you are willing to listen to them as the leader take their input because they're the ones that are in the trenches.
Their expertise is what should, I should have smarter people in the room. That makes me look good and I make my boss look good and so on. But it comes because you're willing to learn, you're willing to listen. I don't have all the answers, but I wanna make improvements upon myself.
Joe Toste: So just a quick follow up.
You also described your transition from keyboard warrior to strategic leader. Tell me more.
James O'Brien: I had a really great admin in Texas City, and when he started, I was. I was an admin. He started as I think it help desk, whatever the title was. And that was before I became the IT director. And he was running circles around what I did and what I knew.
And I was [00:14:00] like, I'm no longer qualified to be that anymore. And I started reflecting upon it. Had that fearful moment what am I gonna do this guy's? He's surpassing what I'm doing and he's doing it really good. So how, what's my lam? What's my next lane to jump into? And that's where I saw leadership as my next avenue.
Let me help coach, let me help mentor, be a continual student and take those nuggets and pass 'em on. Proud to say the guys now, the IT director, he moved from Tech City, he became director there, moved to another city and now he's IT director there. And inherently we just. He still calls and reaches out, like, how do I do this?
I've got this personnel issue, or whatever it is. So the networking, the expertise from tag, I get to hand that down because this has been my wishing well to pick up so much Frank Tag has been that for me.
Joe Toste: Yeah, I love that Jose every leader has their kind of own unique journey. What kind of leadership [00:15:00] principles have proven most effective at the town of Flower Mound for you and your team?
Jose Mendez: For me, I have to say accountability like that is really high on my list. I want to be accountable to them. I want them to be accountable to me, to our stakeholders. We've, we're ta our taxpayers, so I evangelize being accountable. And one of the things I've really adopted recently. Coming from a little bit of a cybersecurity background is trust, nothing, verify everything.
And I say that because we it's really easy to take the first answer you get, but taking that little extra effort and being, and holding yourself accountable to getting the answer is invaluable for your team and your organization. So for me, that's I preach that I will have, even if it annoys people.
And it does, it will rub people the wrong way. And even if I just don't, I'm great. I'll believe you, I believe what you're saying. Prove it to me because I'll do that in spades as well. So I think that for me is one of the better leadership traits. That I think carries over [00:16:00] your personal life as well.
If you're accountable to yourself and to your spouse, your family, I think that's. That is immeasurable. And I think it's very palpable, evident that people want to be around you, want to follow you, they want to do right by you. 'cause they'll, you'll do right by them.
Joe Toste: Yeah. No, I like that. It's been to the Ronald Reagan library and Simi Valley, not too far from Santa Barbara, and they've got the, he's got the, trust, the verify, I didn't really internalize that in public sector early on. Now. Oh my goodness. So I talk to so many people on a weekly basis and all I've got like a little notepad, it's just trust, but verified. I'm like, we're gonna see this person's got receipts or not.
Jose Mendez: I told my team, I was like, I wanna get it tattooed on my fingers.
Trust nothing.
Ted Gruenloh: We do with our kids too, right? It's like you behind their back like. They said they're gonna do this, I'm gonna trust you. And then you're like, ah. Yep, okay. You're doing that. Did you do the dishes? Yes, I opened the dishwasher. Exactly. Verified. Look at that. Yeah. Gold star,
Joe Toste: right?
Yeah. That's that's probably a, one of the best pieces of advice I could give folks in [00:17:00] public sector is wouldn't believe the first thing you hear and be very careful about that. I'd trust but verify. So Shane, in our last episode, we talked about. The 24, scratch that 27 innovation awards for the city of Sein has won.
But I care less about the awards and probably you do too. But I wanna talk about the leadership and talent development values that drive that success.
Shane McDaniel: Okay. So we also talked a little bit about the investment in people. And I went to bat very early on in my tenure in the city of Sein hey.
If we want to accomplish what we say we want to accomplish, we gotta put forth the the monies to ensure that these folks can progress in their careers, their training, their knowledge base, things of that nature. And so that's what we did. Thankfully, the city agreed with me. We we've upped our budget several times as far as training and travel goes, and that's what led to going from having the one degree on staff to 13 degrees and 27 certifications.
And the part that I left out in the previous episode, my department has [00:18:00] also basically doubled. We've added a GIS division, so we're four divisions under it. So some of that stuff is through attrition, the growth, you hire somebody that has a degree or the certs or whatever, so it grows that way.
But it's also a very accurate statement. I'm in a kind of a rural area of Texas. More than half of my team has graduated from local school districts. And this is the only professional experience they have. So you have to dangle that carrot. And the reason why it's so important to me is I want every single one of those folks to know hey.
Look how awesome you are. You can accomplish anything you put your mind to see all these awards, all this positive attention. No mc loves us, right? The partnership we have with Ted and many other of our partners as well. They like engaging with us. We hire personality first over credentials and stuff.
Got a bunch of gregarious kind. Fun loving guys and gals, some good old boys and gals on the team. And man, it resonates. It fits my community. It fits tag ITM, but I also [00:19:00] believe it started with that investment, and that's the culture we've built in the city of Sein. We expect to win everything and it goes beyond technology.
The Halloween contest, we've won that three years or something like that. There's gonna be a make off sale here pretty soon. I wanna win that one too, so like I got a recipe for you. Yeah. That, but that is just, that's the culture we've built within the IT department and I am here for it.
I love it. And it's not coming from me. It's coming from them now. So yeah, it's pretty awesome dude. And I freaking love those guys. I got a great team.
Jose Mendez: It doesn't hurt that you're a good self-promoter.
Shane McDaniel: Come on dude. I thought we were cool, bro.
James O'Brien: Sha Shay's the best cheerleader for his team, and that shows with the awards because he celebrates those wins for his people early and often.
And in local government space. You can't always just throw money at people to say, Hey, I love what you're doing. Thank you. Here's a bump. Yeah. And it, that's a short term fix. It's a short, high, and then it falls off because [00:20:00] they're like, okay, I got that bump now I'm ready. I'm doing all this other work.
Where's the next
Ted Gruenloh: one? It's a great, it's a great example of what you talked about earlier of your passion. You talk about yourself, all of you guys talked about the passion that carries through the organization, right? It, that's what creates that culture.
Shane McDaniel: One final add-on along those lines, we just had two positions added.
Midyear in my department. GIS, pretty high level GIS person and a second dedicated cyber resource, which I love. And mid to high level there too, that resulted in five promotions on my team because we've been getting them ready for years. So like once again, this multiple promotions okay, we want this person in this position.
There's another one ready to go into that backfill. We're gonna wind up hiring at the entry level again, and we're gonna hire those next set of superstars and we're gonna get them ready for those future roles as well. That's the only way I can do it, because I think these gentlemen will agree. I can't pay a dedicated cyber [00:21:00] resource what they can make out on the street, but I can build them from within and make it.
Work from my organization, and I think Ted will certainly agree. J y'all probably all know Trip. That dude is awesome. I hired him five, six years ago. He should be here. I would seen him. Trip is the man homegrown talent from Seguin ISD.
Jose Mendez: And you know what it benefits to have someone like Shane in local government, because I, you're not a comparative city to me, but I compare myself to y'all.
You're smaller than us. You are growing. But it helps build the fact that. My team is lean and I need talent, and we need these wins just as much as you do. And it, I don't, and sometimes that doesn't resonate with the decision makers, but you are a very good soundboard. You're very, you are a very good example of what we could be, what anyone could be.
And so I hold you in high esteem. I know. I don't tell you that often enough.
Ted Gruenloh: Yeah, don't say that. Yeah.
Shane McDaniel: Shining light. I'm beacon of positivity is what I'm hearing. Yeah. You said tag. Yeah. Aren't you glad you came to [00:22:00] tag it? I'm so glad
Joe Toste: this is, oh man. I love it. This is just too good. I look, I love it.
This is, we talk about like sales. This is my favorite definition of sales. The transfer of enthusiasm. I just love that so much. Yeah. 'cause like I'm selling all the time, like I'm not talking about sponsorships. I'm just being like, there's the podcast, I gotta get buy-in from the kids, when they got turnovers left and right.
I gotta get buy-in, with my wife on stuff, whatever. It's it's all kinds of stuff. So the enthusiasm that you bring, Shane, it. Ups, the energy in the room, which gets that buy-in. That starts getting people. That's why people are attracted, like people are attracted to other people who can bring energy and be excited and it's just a powerful force you can bring to local government to just to keep people even a little bit longer in roles or train them up.
And, a really, a leader is like seeing something in his name trip. Yep. Trip. Trip. Where are you? See [00:23:00] some. That's the man, dude. I know. Come on trip. See something. In trip before he sees it in himself. That's leadership right there. That's leadership. So Ted, your company was founded specifically to support understaffed, resourced, lean IT teams in government, which I actually had a very similar.
Was it Eric on the last one? Oh, yes. Yes. He was like, talk, he was using all the key words, lean all. I was like, man, did I put him on the wrong podcast? Tell us about the leadership challenges that you see because you got a portfolio of public sector customers Yeah. That you see and how the best approach that helps 'em overcome those hurdles.
Ted Gruenloh: Yeah. I, it the large to smallest. Fascinating. I love watching. You talked about Frisco, you talked about some of the sein growing. You talk about some of these things. It's fascinating to me 'cause we have one man shops that are customers. We've got, large groups that have dedicated security staff that are customers.
So it's really fun to watch that growth. Leadership challenges. I was gonna dovetail off what you just said, which was you talk about the enthusiasm enthusiasm's great, but if you don't come off as [00:24:00] sincere. That enthusiasm is really just comes off as schlocky circus Barker, like it doesn't mean anything.
So if you're gonna grow an organization like Shane has that there has to be a level of authenticity there. And if you don't have that authenticity it just isn't gonna work. So that's, that to me has been fun to watch. And some of these other organizations in TAG as well, authenticity, transparency, these things just.
They see, I think Jose and I were talking about this earlier, like it seems obvious like that. Like they're, it's in all the books, right? It's in all this other stuff. But there are a lot of organizations that don't have that culture, they just, they have not built that culture out correctly and they're hard to work for.
And so anyway, yeah, I think transparency and authenticity is really a key there.
Shane McDaniel: I think that carries over too. It must be something similar for you guys, but I don't know why I tracked this, but since I've been in my role for seven years. We've worked with well over 400 partners to deliver all the technology services there in the city of [00:25:00] Seguin.
Ver some, it ranges from not great to outstanding and so it's so easy to see who your true partners are. They just it's, you can just see it through the smoke and whatnot. And I gotta give credit to Ted, and not just Ted himself, but his team, the culture there. Very early on we picked up on that and I shared with you guys, very few of our partners have my personal cell number.
These guys do, because it's not just. Sell me a product and protect my environment. It truly is a partnership. We've grown with them, and by the way, I'll be the first to raise my hand whenever Hey man, is considering this technology. Would you mind, saying something?
Yeah, dude, absolutely. And I, but I also think the proof is in the pudding. I heard Greg mention at orientation last year at Tag ITM, there were 17 leads and you closed 13 of them. I don't know. I've never worked in sales, but my God, does that sound high? That's
Ted Gruenloh: amazing, dude. It is. We haven't covered this in the podcast yet.
So I'm gonna, I'll just [00:26:00] take this over. It's fine. Yeah.
Shane McDaniel: Step aside, Joe. It's all good, dude.
Ted Gruenloh: But just the, we haven't even really touched on how great this organization is at making the industry partners as you call us, right? The industry partners and. The agencies or organizations on an e equal footing.
And that is, I can't tell you how many organizations we work with in other states that are not like that, where you're off on the side, you're the vendor over there. We don't really trust you. I get it. We're vendors. You're tired of getting sales calls. I understand.
Jose Mendez: But it really the partnership stuff works.
That's a call out I wanted to make. Is he called you a partner? I bet you said he would. He, I know he was, he didn't say, I'm a no customer. And that's what I tell people all the time. I was like, I don't, I can have these transactional relationships with anyone, but I need you as a partner.
And I think that differentiating between the two, I think you need to critically evaluate your situation, your organiz, your team, and hold people accountable. Again, back
Ted Gruenloh: to accountability. And we literally, from the vendor side, will coach vendors on how to create [00:27:00] those relationships. 'cause we've been doing it so long here in Texas specifically.
About No guys. No. You don't understand you. You gotta go to the events. You gotta come at night to trivia and you gotta sit at the table and you gotta, all that's, you gotta put
Jose Mendez: up a shame.
Ted Gruenloh: Yeah. And it's not, you gotta, sorry, sorry man. It goes
James O'Brien: back to the whole thing of you intentionally have to build that relationship.
Yeah. Because if you don't it, okay, I can go buy a widget and something bright, shiny object off the shelf and okay it fix something. But
Ted Gruenloh: when I need more. I don't have that relationship. And again, that authenticity is so key because you can see right through it if it's not there.
So yeah,
Shane McDaniel: look what it leads to as well. You touched on the, the salesy thing, what have you. I don't get sales calls from Ted or his running mate, Greg. Anytime they email, call, text, whatever, it's yeah, dude, what's up? So like that's the relationship that's been built and established.
Every partner out there should aspire to operate in the same way because it's just a level of trust that's earned. I wish I [00:28:00] had I do have some other great partners too, but I wish I had a little more of it to be honest.
Joe Toste: Yeah. I've got such an interesting perspective meeting with so many CXOs and meeting with so many vendor partners and I can just tell, I'm like.
Doesn't get it. Doesn't get it. That missed the boat. That's a pick six. Oh, ether interception. Downfield Pick six. I love that. Yeah that's horrible. But seriously I probably met with, I don't know, what month is it? April? I met with 80 vendors this year already and Mo a lot. There's just, it's tough.
I'm like, dude, it's I think you just don't get it. Like it's not. It can't be a lead in the database or CRM, like gonna build relationships that sometimes, like you do consulting. Oh, I host the podcast. I'm just telling you, this is what you should do. Because, 'cause you, because you're not talking to your customers.
Step one. That's what you need to go do. Go talk to your customers. I just happen to do that all the time. But you should go talk to your customers and that's just like a great, I love what you said about going to the events. You can't be known if you don't go to the events. So I threw an event, sorry, I'm [00:29:00] on a little bit of a tangent then we'll keep going.
But I threw, I'll allow it. I threw an event. I threw an event last year in Seattle and Bellevue for some folks come from Olympia. And what was striking was some people were like, oh, I didn't know some of the state agencies were gonna come ' cause in Seattle or Bellevue. And I was like I know people in Olympia.
How do you know people in Olympia? ' cause I went to Olympia 'cause I went to a bar with the state CISO and with other agencies and broke some bread, right? That's how you go. Like in Houston. I didn't just show up on the doorstep in Houston, like started with summer, who's a deputy CIO for project management for the City of Houston.
Three years ago she gave a talk at TASSCC, one of the rare local government. It's summer, great talk. Hey I'm gonna have this podcast at the Commodore in Austin. Do you wanna come? Sure. Why not? Just she comes and that those relationships compound. And it was like, Hey, like I'm gonna be at Gartner in Florida, in Orlando.
Oh, cool. Hey, why don't you meet the whole team and then why [00:30:00] don't you go? And I just don't think people understand if you don't have an agenda doors, just open the IT director for, in the city of Santa Barbara where I live. It's so small. It is maybe 50,000 people. His buddies with him. It is crazy.
I had to see Justin on the street and he's Hey man. Make sure Shane doesn't kill you on the podcast. Yeah.
Shane McDaniel: Do y'all remember Justin Cure from Longview? Yes. Describe. Okay. He's in Santa Barbara. He's in Santa Barbara.
Joe Toste: Oh wow. Hey, shout out Justin. What's up
Shane McDaniel: Justin? What's up Justin? Come back home buddy.
Oh no.
Joe Toste: Justin to meet you at Handlebar Coffee, my man. Oh. Wait, and because it's just a theme. Shout out Rishma. I know. Risma is the CIO in Las Vegas. The airport. Oh, Rishma. Oh, what's up Rishma? Yes. Yep. Yeah, he was a little slow, but he is tired. He's tired. Might have been up late last night. Rishma. My bad.
Yeah, he needs another coffee.
So James Port, port Houston has implemented I believe I got this right. Hybrid work culture, right? You're the hybrid, right? That you had talked about requires a lot of over communication, which I love that. [00:31:00] So no matter the leader team, communication. It's just so paramount, and we covered this a little bit with we talked about extreme ownership, the book in the previous podcast.
But I was kinda curious like, how do you keep a pulse on the team from when they're working at home versus in the office versus, you're here at tag. Like how do you over communicate?
James O'Brien: So it's really, it's still a learning point for me to know how to communicate and communicate well, communicate better.
So again, being back to a student of all time I'm not gonna sit there and be like, okay, I need you to check in when you logged in. I don't need that. It's built upon trust that I know you're doing what I've asked you to do or what you've even set out for yourself to accomplish. Hey, there's this goal I want to complete.
Okay. Every now and then I'm gonna check in on you though. I have the intentional conversations, the one-on-ones with them. What is it that you want to do? How do you want to accomplish this? How can I check in on you? Then I've got a large calendar whiteboard. If there's a [00:32:00] goal that you've set, I want to go for the certification, write it on the calendar Air Bay, and it can see it, and we're gonna hold you accountable to it.
I wanna help push you. To not let it sit on the shelf. So by just having those relationships, the intentional communication, all of that stuff builds that trust. So I don't have to sit there and go, are you doing this today? Are you doing this today? Yeah, that's great.
Joe Toste: I wanna do a follow up and I'm jumping a little bit, but I missed it, but I wanna come back.
Is the. You had mentioned to me that TAG was a life preserver for you when you were at Texas City, so I wanted to have you tell the audience, like how that community helped shape your leadership approach and what lessons have you've, that you've taken back to Port Houston from what you've benefited from Tag.
James O'Brien: Oh man. It's a laundry list of lessons, but so again, when I was at Tech City before, we had a third person as a two person shop. I found or tag, found me whichever way it occurred, and I just felt like we were drowning. [00:33:00] 450 full-time employees, 48,000 populations of 40 police fire EMS, emergency management, 24 7 operations, and for two people to carry that load.
It was pretty heavy. And for about six months, my director at the time had fallen ill, was in the hospital and I was running it by myself. So again, when I found tag, I found a community that allowed me to not have extra personnel in the in, in the seat, but I had someone to reach out to. I had to phone a friend, Hey, I'm trying to do this.
How do I do this? Why should I do it? Why should I not do that? And like we talked about, that was my life preserver, because otherwise I was just putting out fires nonstop and never advancing what. What I was bringing to the organization. So TAG allowed me for that opportunity. And then leadership stuff, getting involved in the committees getting plugged in, taking the introvert off, putting it away, and putting yourself out there in that discomfort [00:34:00] space of, Hey, what's your name?
Hi Joe, I'm James. What do you do? Where you at? And stuff like that. So that way then you start building the relationships to know what somebody else is doing. So you don't have to recreate the wheel. I think that's the biggest piece. The community for me was the life preserver. And I keep several different notes in my phone of nuggets from different events that I've gone to that I always reference back, always fall back to it.
So again, it's a laundry list of lessons learned that I continue to go back to. To go. Okay. I know I've talked to somebody about this. What was it?
Joe Toste: Yeah,
James O'Brien: what was that little thing? I'll read the one word. Maybe it's all I took and I'll be like it sparks that memory
Jose Mendez: and here's how to go through that.
I think it also has transcended like, 'cause you and I met when we were two different employers and it transcends your work life, your professional life, and it's, it helps you grow as a person and an individual. We've maintained our relationship through. Tag movie. Yeah. [00:35:00] And and I think it's just been opened up the channel of communication.
No matter whether it's you or me, it's, I know someone over at that city. I know he's struggling with something over there, and I might've heard it through the grape line. I might've heard it from him, but I can reach out to someone and just talk to them and have a very open and honest conversation with someone that wouldn't, I wouldn't have otherwise known.
Yeah.
Joe Toste: Yeah. No, I. The power of the community taking the, I like that you have the lessons learned. I actually do that on the airplane. When I fly back from any event, I always have like lessons learned, things I like, things I'm capturing that I then start putting into my own private. I just watch Netflix.
I don't know.
Yeah, I don't believe that. But. Just being able to take those like lessons and not lose them, right? Documenting them, having them stored, cleaning them up. Like especially 12 hours after the event or whenever it is you're leaving. That way you can distill them and then later on you can upload 'em to a project in Claude or Chatt or whatever.
And it's fun 'cause then you can start asking [00:36:00] questions like, I do this, I write. Talking about hold self accountable. I've got some folks who have either owned a business, they know the business side of what it takes to run a business. My board. But I just sent a weekly email to, holds me accountable to driving TechTables forward.
And some are current CIOs who were business owners. Which is crazy because they can gimme really practical advice. Advice, which is great. And what I love about it is I uploaded, I've turned each of those emails into A PDF that I've then uploaded to Claude, and now it's telling me, I'm like, Hey, I, I'm thinking about this or this or whatever, and it's giving me insights and like surfacing information and I'm like, oh dude, that is just so good to make sure.
And then I take that information, I might go store it in like a digital system and I go back and it's wow, I had this conversation. James might have said one word to me in Houston, right? And I'm just like, jotting that down. Or all the little details that then you can just quickly review.
That also helps with the relationships, right? That's how you build community. Like remembering that, Shane is a diva. I don't know, I'm [00:37:00] just making sound. He's I own that.
Ted Gruenloh: That's fine. It's just no argument here. We're gonna get you, we're gonna
Jose Mendez: get you a shirt
Joe Toste: that says that. Yeah, that'd actually be a great one.
That would be a good one. Yeah, that would be a great one. That'd be a great one. So anyways, a little bit of a tangent, but
Ted Gruenloh: Can I continue a tangent just shortly? Which is, ' cause we're not a huge organization. I, these guys maybe don't even know this, but to pull the curtain back a little bit, I love listening to their stories of growth and the growth of their team, their leadership, their culture, 'cause.
Yeah, we're actually in a similar boat. We're not Fortune 500, 3000 people. Like we're, we're just like we're so I've learned a lot just having these chats and learning about their growing pains and all that kind of stuff. 'cause it helps us, want us small organization of us.
It's similar. It's, there's a lot of similarities there.
Joe Toste: Yeah. And it's fun to see tag where I think the next year it's going to the jw. So that's gonna be a lot of fun. Got a bigger venue, you're gonna be back, right? I will most likely come back. Alright man. Let's do it. Shameless plug to the Marriott.
Yeah. The only reason I say most likely is 'cause it's not in my calendar yet, but I'll put it in my calendar after. Do you [00:38:00] do the three years out, like this is like EDUCAUSE. Hey, here are the next three years where we're gonna be. I'm like, yeah,
Shane McDaniel: we're gonna be there three years. We sought a three year deal with them.
JW Marriott, hill Country. We can't wait. That's right. Yeah. The dates are already out, I think. Yes. Yep. We have the dates. Beautiful resort.
Joe Toste: So I gotta put that in my commitment tracking system. Yeah. I think just like when you can build a community, bring people together, it's just it's so power, especially for local government, I think it's just, it's such a different animal than like the state agencies or some of the other, or even like higher ed.
And there's just a unique piece where there's that we're in it together type of mentality for local government which is fun, right?
Ted Gruenloh: 100%. The, you couldn't you could, but you wouldn't get the love that's happened on this couch that didn't come out the way I meant for it to come out.
That just but no, but seriously, you wouldn't get that. If it was banking or, some of these other verticals, you just simply from a vendor perspective, you're not gonna, you're not gonna collaborate like you do in local government. So our [00:39:00] customers
Jose Mendez: are so unique, right? We've got law enforcement, we've got dispatchers, we've got fire EMS.
You got a paper pusher and utility billing. You got, not to say it as a pejorative, but we've got such a variety of customer stakeholders. That it just it's an ever evolving process and it really just has you stretching your mind if you want to, if you want to. I think that's the other, if you have the desire to stay and remain hungry and be a hard worker, you can, that's absolutely the right.
Local government is ripe for that.
Joe Toste: Yeah, I love that. Okay, so we're gonna do a little twist as we wrap up. We'll start. No, we'll start with Ted. We'll let Mr. President finish.
Shane McDaniel: All right. Best for last.
Joe Toste: As we think about TAG 2026, I wanna hear what's the best, what's the best pitch?
Why, what's local government should show up here in 2026 and beyond? Oh, wow. I think I, I
Ted Gruenloh: think if you're, if you've made it this far in the podcast from a
Joe Toste: Go from a vendor's perspective, and then we'll go from the.
Ted Gruenloh: You haven't fallen asleep yet. It really is just reiterating the, if, [00:40:00] especially from a vendor's perspective, the whole, you don't get it, you mentioned that earlier.
Like you, you just have to understand the relationship. If you were here, I, my biggest pitch for 2026 would be, all right, if you were, this was your first year two, right? And then year three, let's talk 2027. And that's when the benefits really start rolling in from. That perspective because those, and again, it's not a manipulative relationship thing from a vendor perspective, it is an authentic relationship thing.
And it takes two, three years, like to really build that before some of these guys are gonna listen to you, right? And you build that stuff out. So I would say don't even talk 2026 if this is your first year here. Think 2027,
Joe Toste: but they gotta show up next year. Yeah. Of course. Yeah. You gotta start somewhere, right?
You can't
Ted Gruenloh: just do every odd year. Yeah. Yeah. You gotta be here forever.
Joe Toste: Yeah. Yeah. No. Okay. So real quick yeah, no, I absolutely love that. My, my first ever public sector event I attended was Task in Galveston. I didn't, couldn't put Galveston on a map when I showed up. Yeah. And I had a hot 30 episodes out.
[00:41:00] And this is the power of, you just keep showing up. Now we're at, we've published 199 episodes. Awesome
Shane McDaniel: man. Are we number 200? Are we doing
Joe Toste: the golf clap? No, not quite, bro. You're gonna be like 2 25. I got that all, I got more content. I gotta keep publishing. But, continuing to go back and those relationships just, they grow, they blossom.
Sometimes you see people outta state, sometimes you see people in state. But yeah, continuing to show up and then, even great folks from task came here today that was like amazing. That was like incredible, right? I think that's just like such a powerful especially what you said, if you're a vendor partner, building those relationships, with, without the expectation of Hey, you know what?
I wanna get some deal tomorrow or next week or next month, or whatever. You're like, Hey, my goal is to build. 20 great relationships. That'd be a great goal. It puts a whole lot less pressure on yourself, and you're just hanging out with 20 great people, right? Even same thing if I was CXO, it's the same thing.
I'd be like, Hey, I wanna build some relationships because those people are working on projects that I want to know what they're working on. All right. [00:42:00] 20 20, 26. Pitch for tag. One, I'll be the president, so why
Shane McDaniel: not? Yeah. Why not be there? We'll get away from that little situation we've been dealing with for the past year.
James O'Brien: I hear it all the time from talking to people. They're like, this is so different. Our event is so different. Our community is so different. I think it's so unique that hearing from the industry partners. Great. They're part of it. They have a committee. We're getting feedback from them.
What can we improve to make sure you're happy being here? We ask the members, what do you want to see? One of my things, I've been going around to a few people what's the challenge you want to give me for this upcoming year as president to make better, to solve, to highlight, maybe it's the cheer leading thing.
Maybe it's something to fix, but what is it that you want to see? That I get to take. Here's a list of everything from Shane. Yes. Yeah. Oh yeah. There'll be weeding out. There'll be some disqualifications right off the bat, but no, it like what can I do to make this so impactful to you as it's been to [00:43:00] me?
What can I give to you that makes it resonate? That one.
Joe Toste: I love that. Are you familiar with EOS. EOS. Yeah. The entrepreneurial operating system. Yeah.
Ted Gruenloh: Okay.
Joe Toste: Yeah. So there's a book that part of that collection wrote Traction. Yeah. Have you read that? Yeah. And what I was thinking about was in traction they have IDS, it's identify, discuss, solve.
And so during your weekly meeting, and I literally just pictured, I just had this like popup image of james is now president and you're just IDSing all of Shane. I'm totally kidding.
Shane McDaniel: You don't have enough storage space. Yeah, you're not wrong. Dude. We spent a lot of money. Money this year. Yeah. Why is this list so long?
I hope there's some left. Honestly.
Joe Toste: Maybe if you're a vendor, come back to 2020. No, I'm kidding. Jose Best pitch for 2026. Coming back to tag.
Jose Mendez: Oh, man I'm really, I hate saying these cliche terms, like it is what it is, but I want to, I'm a big slogan guy and so I, it is what you make it I think 2026 is you get back what you put in.
So all of us sitting here, we've all been here, we've all met, we've formed relationships, partnerships, [00:44:00] we've talked to people, we'll engage others. I don't have to do any of that. And you don't have to, you don't have to put yourself out there, you don't have to be vulnerable, but you can. And when you do, you will find that it will be returned to you and it you'll, yes, benefit from it, from relationships, from conversations, from takeaways but for me, it's whatever the level of effort you get, this is one of those unique conferences where you will get that back from.
It could be a vendor, it could be a partner, it could be just so and so at some of other cities. But you'll, there's you started the podcast by saying little nuggets. You get those little takeaways, those little nuggets where you're like, man, that kind of fills up my cups now. And it either reaffirms what you've been doing at your own organization where you then say, I gotta go back and be better than Shane at Sabine.
Wait, what? That was I was testing you to see if you were listening. If you're waiting for your turn to talk. I get it. Go ahead.
Joe Toste: Alright. Last podcast. We're gonna, we're gonna close out with you.
Shane McDaniel: Why should people attend in 2026? Yep. Okay. When there's no money. No, I'm totally [00:45:00] kidding. We'll be all right.
My first tag ITM conference. I don't feel like it was that long ago, honestly. Galveston 2017, and as we spoke about a little bit of the history of 15 years, military, government, federal, a few years in private industry, and then the rest, and local government. So at that point I had already lived and worked around the world, different cultures, all these amazing things.
Being a native born Texan and then having the opportunity to come back and serve my fellow Texans. I walk in the door at TAGITM and I literally was like, oh my God, I found my people, man, because it's a bunch of good old boys and gals having a good time. Amazing education, amazing relationships across the board, not just the our sister cities and counties and whatnot, but obviously with.
And our partners like Ted and many others and whatnot, and it hasn't. We've grown exponentially. It's like night and day difference over the past five years, I'd say, since COVID, but we've never lost that. That sort of [00:46:00] culture, that vibe. I've always said that TAG ITM as a Texas based organization reflects Texas values exceptionally well.
And that's why I fell in love with the organization early on. I wanted to start volunteering and, helping out. And one thing led to another. Here we are, and 2026, any blue collar folks or anyone in local government, looking to get their footing. Maybe you're new to local government, maybe you're not.
You just want to establish those relationships. Bring it on, man, because that opportunity is there for everybody. That's why I would encourage people to show up in 2026.
Ted Gruenloh: How's that sales pitch, Ted? That's pretty good. I do actually have something to throw on the end, if you don't mind. Which is, and we've changed our focus internally about this.
It's really actually the show's great, like the conference is great, but this organization's a year round thing. It's these organizations, these relationships are not. Just, I'll see you in April. Like these are relationships that are built way over time. You guys have your quarterly meetings, you have your listserv, you've got your, all [00:47:00] your committees, you, all these things happen.
And it's really a year round thing. And it's almost like this conference is like a celebration of all of that. Yeah. And like a culmination of all that. So I just wanted to emphasize that a little bit because it's not just. I'll see you in April. I'll see you next year. You
Shane McDaniel: won Best for last.
You got it. You got it. Killed it.
Joe Toste: I love it. Thank you for coming on the Public Sector Show by TechTables. Appreciate you all. Thank you
James O'Brien: Than you for having us. Thank you for coming out and doing this. Yeah, absolutely. Glad you're putting that spotlight on us