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23 minute read
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Featuring:
- Frank Sweeney, CIO, Arizona Department of Child Safety
- Beth Neeley, CIO, Arizona Department of Education
In this episode, you'll learn:
- How Frank Sweeney transformed DCS's Guardian system from 2 releases to 46 successful deployments in 10 months
- Why the Arizona Department of Education's $9M school finance payment system succeeded through strategic stakeholder collaboration
- How the Department of Education achieved unprecedented financial transparency and reduced tech debt by $500,000
- The power of authentic leadership and being present in driving organizational transformation
- Why strategic team placement and a culture of gratitude are critical success factors in public sector IT
TIMESTAMPS
(00:00) Welcome and Introductions
(01:41) Frank's transition strategy: People, process, and culture at DCS
(04:52) Beth's journey: Leading the Department of Education transformation
(09:06) Building a culture of gratitude and breaking down bureaucratic barriers
(14:07) Success story: Department of Education's $9M payment system overhaul
(18:54) DCS transformation: From Guardian system challenges to 46 deployments
(22:42) Leadership insights: EOS framework and strategic team placement
(25:37) Key leadership lessons: The power of being present and authentic
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→ #180: J.R. Sloan, Ryan Murray & Doug Lange – Arizona State CIO, CISO & Former CSO Talk AI
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Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:00:00]:
Hey, what's up everybody?
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:00:00]:
This is Joe Tossi from Techtables.com and you're listening to the Public Sector show by Tech Tables. This podcast features human centric stories from public sector CIOs, CISOs and technology leaders across federal, state, city, county and higher education. You'll gain valuable insights into current issues and challenges faced by top leaders through interviews, speaking engagements, live podcast tour events. We offer you a behind the mic look at the opportunities top leaders are seeing today. And to make sure you never miss an episode, head over to Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Hit that follow button and leave a quick rating. Just tap the number of stars that you think this show deserves.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:00:34]:
Today we're thrilled to have Frank Sweeney, Chief Information Officer for the Arizona Department of Child Safety, and Beth Neely, Chief Information Officer for the Arizona Department of Education. Welcome to the Public Sector show by Tech Tables.
Beth Neely [00:00:46]:
Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:00:48]:
It's great to have you, Frank. We'll just kick off with you for folks who don't know you, short intro.
Frank Sweeney [00:00:52]:
Been in it for about 30 years. I spent 20 of those years in private sector. Last few years prior to coming to government I was in venture capital, purchasing, mergers and acquisition and then I spent nine years, last nine years at Game and Fish prior to coming to DCS.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:01:10]:
Fantastic.
Beth Neely [00:01:10]:
Beth Short intro yeah, I've got about 25 years in it. My first nine years was in automotive industry and the rest of it has been serving in here in Arizona with Maricopa county, the Department of Revenue and now Department of Ed.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:01:27]:
That's great. Frank, you recently transitioned from your nine year tenure at Fish and Games to your current role as CIO at dcs. What was your approach to understanding the new priorities and challenges and expectations across the new organization?
Frank Sweeney [00:01:41]:
In every organization I really think that there's three parts to it. No matter what organization is, is people, process and culture. Not in that order, not in that priority. And my approach was one that I didn't take earlier in my career and I should have and that is spending most of my time developing relationships because that kind of covers the people side of the business. It also builds a trust that helps you mentor and also show and lead the way on what you want to do, the changes you want to do. And that kind of gets that trust culture going which covers a third one. Once that happens, usually what happens is the people are on board with your ideas because they trust you and then we start looking at processes that can be improved. And investing, I would say, in individual relationships is key to any kind of change that you want to do for organization.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:02:37]:
That's great. I'd love to hear a little bit more about the first 90 days. I know you're past that now, but just for folks who understand, you were at almost a decade at Fish and Games, you moved over. What was that 90 day game plan like?
Frank Sweeney [00:02:48]:
I wish there wasn't 90. It's probably more like 120. But I think the first 90 days was going around and speaking to every single person I could. That seems to be the best approach as far as getting to know individuals and what they do for the organization. Because how do you present anything that any idea to an organization unless you get to know the people are actually doing the work? And so I did that for most of the time ask a lot of questions. And really something I wish I would have done earlier in my career is that I listened a lot more than I talked. I know it's hard for you to believe most people know me, but as I got older in my career or senior in my career, I realized that the listening part is probably the best thing you can possibly do in the first 90 days.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:03:34]:
That's fantastic. Are there any questions that you're like, I really love this is like my go to question to start off or warm up a conversation.
Frank Sweeney [00:03:42]:
I don't really have any go to questions other than the fact that I like to ask why you work for somebody, why you work at the agency, how long you've been working there, what are the things you like to do, what do you think you like to do for the agency or outside of work? Just casual things, I think. I try not to be like a list of questions. I'd be personal, whatever they come up with. Sometimes it's a natural conversation, sometimes it's, hey, how are you doing? I'm Frank Sweeney, I'm new cio. And then some. Sometimes just when you have applause, sometimes they start asking questions about what you're doing. I know earlier in my career I wish I would have been more open about everything I did and listened to the questions they were asking me. Instead of trying to create an app, trying to create that question, that awkwardness.
Frank Sweeney [00:04:29]:
Sometimes it's just having the conversation with a smile. They're always says talk about all the things they want to talk about with you.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:04:35]:
That's great. Beth, you've been serving as the CIO for the Arizona Department of Education for about two and a half years now after transitioning from your previous role at the Department of Revenue. What was your approach to understanding the unique. It Needs and challenges and opportunities within the education sector at your new role.
Beth Neely [00:04:52]:
First, just so everyone understands, not only have I only been there for two and a half years, I'm brand new CIO for two and a half years. So my approach was falling on my face a few times. That was the reality of learning what it was like to be a cio, having the confidence in myself that I can be that cio. But I think in being that overeager, right, you went in there over eager, right? And that's where you trip up a little bit, right? And you've got to really sit back and you've got to understand what it is the agency is looking for you to deliver and how you can deliver that. But I had a very unique situation which I think is interesting to share. So when I was interviewed, I went through my standard first interview and then I got called back for a second interview and they gave me three problems, very detailed, and they said my second interview I would have 10 minutes to explain to them how I would solve each problem. And I read those problems and I reread those problems and I realized those were not textbook made up for a test. Those were true agency problems.
Beth Neely [00:06:00]:
So I think I had a leg up going through that interview process and they were very transparent through that. So I had three really good ideas of what was going to be expected of me when I walked in. So that was incredible. And just like Frank talked about, it's building that relationship. So there are more than 25 programs within the Department of Education. So it's meeting them, it's understanding what was working for them before, what's not working for them. If they could change some things, if they had expectations of me that might be different than my predecessor, what would those be? And then I found after you had those conversations, and you're right, it's about 120 days, right. It doesn't happen quickly and then coalescing, if you will, that information and you can really see some of the similarities.
Beth Neely [00:06:43]:
And then just like you would be problem problem solving where you can hit them and solve some of those problems that they were all feeling quickly. So you can get some small wins that way. But I do want to say it's not easy. It's not easy being new to an agency and it's not easy being new in your role. So, you know, I did trip up a little bit and learned from all of that and I think that was part of my experience.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:07:09]:
That's great. I'm thinking about this right now. Are there one or two lessons learned that you would like to share from just tripping up and everybody else.
Beth Neely [00:07:16]:
I'm not. This is my first time new as a cio, and as I was preparing for my two weeks when I was going to make that transition out, I reflected on things I was passionate about, things that I had learned at the Department of Revenue or at Maricopa county or back in the automotive industry that I felt in my mind were best practices and things that had been successful in each organization. So I think when I walked in there, my gut said, go with what you feel comfortable with, right? These things have worked, right? And when I did that, I didn't realize until my team looked at me and you're talking about 107 people looking at you going, how would you expect that to work here? So I think what tripped me up was what I felt comfortable with is understanding that is not necessarily a fit in this new organization. So that's what would have tripped me up, right? Is I would have wanted to go down this path because it's worked for me in the past and it's worked for another agency, but that's not necessarily going to work here. And one of the things I think that is makes us a strong leader out of us is knowing to say, I realize what I just did, right? And I realized kind of the missteps and some of the assumptions I made. And I think that's how I gained that. That relationship, even with my team is owning up to that. But what's that new? And it's being eager and wanting to solve all of the problems and then realizing they're not the same.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:08:44]:
That self awareness is awesome that you could have that and recognize coming in and listening and being open to pivoting and seeing what's possible in a new organization. Frank, on our intro call, you had mentioned the importance of breaking down bureaucratic barriers. Could you share an example of how you fostered that culture of collaboration and innovation at dcs?
Frank Sweeney [00:09:06]:
I think one of the biggest things is to make people understand or realize that they're a part of your decision making. I think that's something that's really important and that goes along with what Beth said about like developing that trust and getting those quick wins. Also, I would also say that whatever you're saying or whatever you're doing to try to build a culture, live the culture as a cio, because that's more of an impact when people see that you are the way you literally are the way you are. One of the things I like to do and it's just something that I just totally believe in is in implementing what's called the call the gratitude culture. In other words, every single day there is something that happens. There is some goodness that happens. And recognizing that goodness every time it happens. And when you are illustrating how to do that on a daily basis, your actions, your words, the way you present yourself, it has a habit of rubbing off on people and just realizing that when people come to work, they come to work with all these great ambitions, all these great things to think about and to do.
Frank Sweeney [00:10:20]:
And somehow between the car and the actual building or maybe even the virtual meeting, life takes over. And so understanding that empathy, being empathetic to those people and understanding that this may be the only thank you they ever get, that this might be the only gratitude is ever shown to them is something that is really dear to my heart. And I try to practice as much as I can. I literally thank every single person every time something happens. I'm an email. I think they think I'm corny, but I really thank them because I have to remember everybody's coming from a different part of life. And so that's something that I really believe in. The culture of gratitude.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:11:02]:
Yeah, that's really great. Did you pick that up during your earlier career?
Frank Sweeney [00:11:06]:
I wish I would've invented it. No, actually I had a really strange way of. My career was really strange in a sense because I grew up being a history and political science major, which. How the heck did you get into it? There was an opportunity in Phoenix to be a dot com in the dot com company. I did that and found, hey, wow, I'm really good at this. I'm good at software developing. And then just went from there. Never spent a day time anytime.
Frank Sweeney [00:11:32]:
Why that's important. And this is that. That when I went through all this, there was parts where you started listening to people that already went through all the pain and frustration you did. One of the. One of the mentors I had probably didn't think I was his. He was a mentor to me, but I listened to him a lot. He said that to me. He said, we take for granted when people come through the door and we only see reactions and we say, wow, that person is grumpy.
Frank Sweeney [00:11:55]:
Oh, that person has a bad attitude. Or that person has all these. Because you assume all this, but you have no idea what just happened to them before they walked in the front door. And to diffuse that, if you are in a good mood or you exude positivity or you exude niceties. Thank yous in turn, that person might change their whole day. And the catalyst for that might be when they go home, they might change someone else's and on. And so when I heard that in one of the. One of the venture capital people, I thought, oh, that's cruelly.
Frank Sweeney [00:12:29]:
I know I'm really good at what I do. I don't need to have that. People know what I'm doing. And I realized that it's not about technology. It's about the people. People make technology. People use technology to better things. But people are at the core of everything.
Frank Sweeney [00:12:46]:
So if we don't get that down, if we don't get that, we're probably not going to get technology.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:12:50]:
Right. We talk about the people process technology. I think JR had a quote on this was like, there's a reason why it's in that order. Right.
Frank Sweeney [00:12:58]:
And.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:12:58]:
But I think also the importance. You can't build an organization or a business or any. Or an agency or anything if your people aren't on the same page. Don't like you. You're just a terrible leader. Right. It just. The whole thing ends up collapsing and you can have the best data lake in the world.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:13:17]:
But guess what? People don't like you. Doesn't matter. On, like kind of a sports theme, because Final Four, I was watching this documentary. It was like Patrick Mahomes and Tom Brady and all these kind of NFL quarterbacks. You know, the. The defense is coming to murder them, right? Take their head off. And they would always say to like the opposing line, hey, hey, really appreciate you. Appreciate you.
Frank Sweeney [00:13:38]:
Appreciate.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:13:39]:
I want you to. You're gonna hit me, but I just don't want you to take my head off. Hit me. But I like that. So I took that and then become. My wife was using it too. I don't know if she saw the documentary. But I would like to say, hey, appreciate you.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:13:49]:
Appreciate you. Because you're right. The empathy. You don't know. Someone could be having a horrible day. You don't know what they walked into. And you could exude your positivity onto them. Beth, move into some of the successful IT initiatives or projects that you've had over the last two and a half years.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:14:07]:
Anything that you're really proud of or you maybe want to brag on your team about. Love to hear if there's any stories there.
Beth Neely [00:14:14]:
I'd love to brag on my team. I think it would go on for a lot more than our allotted time. I thought about, let's. Let's hit some highlights and where we can talk about like some intense collaboration. Department of education was awarded $9 million in 2020 to implement and completely replace the school finance payment system. And it was a four and a half year project. And I came in right at the end of year one. The first year of any project that size is going to be bumpy.
Beth Neely [00:14:41]:
And I learned a lot about. So this project had external oversight. This project had asset oversight under JR's team. This project had a DRC committee, which was made up of members of school officials. This project had our internal stakeholders, and we had a large staff of development because it was all built in house. It was bumpy, right? It was trying to build that relationship. It was getting leadership and guidance from this arm, and leadership and guidance and direction from this arm and making that come together. And I will say that using some of what Frank's talking about, talking and bringing that positivity to the thing and working with these different groups, I think it was probably within the second year then.
Beth Neely [00:15:27]:
This project looked and felt different. The people looked and felt different. We were working closely with asset. We were working closely with our IV and V partners. The internal stakeholders looked at things differently. We had a much more stable development staff because it was a contract staff. And I think that is something I'm proud of and continue to be proud of for that team. As that will close in June of this year, we will be putting a close to that project.
Beth Neely [00:15:59]:
The team works diligently every year. They are solving problems at the tune of about $25 million for 22 different program areas. So there are a lot of accomplishments every year within each one of the program areas, from health and nutrition services to teacher certification to assessments, to accountability to exceptional students. So there are a lot of accomplishments. But I do want to talk about my leadership and an accomplishment that I'm very proud of. When I first came in, someone whispered to me as I was starting this career as a cio, follow the money. And I found that interesting. And one of the things that myself and my leadership team took on was follow that money.
Beth Neely [00:16:47]:
How do we get funded? How are we spending that money? Where does it go? Interesting thing about the Department of Education is we've got 72 approximately different general funding strings, and we've got over 74 different federal funding strings. And how are we going to make sense of that and how do we track that? And it. It took us about a year. And I now have a budget process, a budget document, and a budgeting reporting tool. And I can tell where we have spent our money to the penny twice. A month. It is that accurate. It is that transparent.
Beth Neely [00:17:21]:
My leadership has access to it. And so we've really. I'm proud of my team for taking on some fiscal responsibility. I love that in my leadership team and my leadership team and I have been working on technology debt. So I think another great accomplishment is again, I came in at the end of 21 and just this month for the first time since 2021, we have reduced software debt for ADE by approximately $500,000 for the first time this year. So looking at our inventory and again taking responsibility and accountability for that. So that is a huge accomplishment, I think from myself and my leadership team that I am really proud of. So again, should anyone ask me how do you spend the money, where does your money go? I will tell you to the penny.
Beth Neely [00:18:14]:
So that I think I am very proud of my team has learned that they inspire me in that they're on board with me in that and we are constantly digging and will not stop. So project wise, the team is fantastic. Lots of great successes. But from a leadership team, I'm really proud at how we're becoming fiscally responsible.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:18:34]:
That's fantastic. You don't know any of Frank's friends from the, from his venture capital days, right? Because they, they might want to hire you to be their turnaround expert.
Frank Sweeney [00:18:43]:
They would too because she's the best.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:18:45]:
Yeah, yeah. Frank, love to hear some of those stories or brag on your team with the 10 months that you're in role.
Frank Sweeney [00:18:54]:
It's hard to say 10 months. But Stephen Hinsey is our data and product officer. He handles a very important product called Guardian. It was on the news, it was in poor light for a long time. We have Ashina Dakkar, she's our chief technology officer. She's recently moved into that position and we have a CISO which is a chief security officer, Lindy Ho. The reason why I say all three of them is because to change anything, you need the team. Absolutely 100%.
Frank Sweeney [00:19:22]:
I always laugh, I think that I'm sit there, I'm sitting there being the witness to all their fun. Right. It's weird for me because when you're, when you go through your career, you, it goes from being the star you hope at least right. Then you move through this whole kind of weird kind of self awareness of. It's almost more enjoyable to see every single person around you enjoy things more than you getting enjoyment from it. And so that's when Beth and I start moving into the leadership roles at that time of our career. And so when that happens, it's just a wonderful feeling. For our success in 10 months was prior to me coming there, our team, they had all the talent.
Frank Sweeney [00:20:09]:
Their talent was there. They just didn't have. They weren't in the white spots. So I always pride myself in thinking that I'm a good coach in a sense, that if I move this person over here, they're really a leader. And I move this person over here, they really need to do this, and I give them direction in some fashion that they'll just take it and run with it. And that's what basically those three people did. And in 10 months, they went from having two releases, which. And also a very bad reputation with this particular product, which is Guardian, to having 46 deployments of improvement and getting us off the naughty list for the governor.
Frank Sweeney [00:20:47]:
So I think that's an amazing feat for those three people. I just was along for the ride and I just. When I see it, it makes me feel so good. And the luckiest person alive. I am the luckiest person alive because someone allows me to move people around so they become superstars. And I pinch myself when I wake up. I get up, I can't wait to get to work at 6:00 in the morning. I just.
Frank Sweeney [00:21:20]:
I pinch myself that there's actually a job out there that allows me to do what I like. And so I know I can go into details because I've only been there 10 years, but I think that's a huge feat for three individuals that at one time were in a different position, and now they're in the right position, and now their teams are flourishing. And so I just can't be more proud of it.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:21:39]:
Yeah, I know. That's great. Have you heard of eos, the entrepreneurial operating system?
Frank Sweeney [00:21:43]:
No, but it sounds like something I should know.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:21:45]:
Yeah, it's really great. We. We talked about it earlier. We talked about it earlier. They've got a great book called Traction, but it's. It's less about your. It's actually not about your job title, but putting you in the particular chair and where do you fit most? And so they have it broken out, which is really great. They call it the visionary and then the integrator.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:22:06]:
And then understanding, like when you start to understand your personality, you can start to move people not based on their job title, but based on where would they be the best fit. And you might like the title of the CEO, but actually you're probably the best cto and someone else needs to go fill that role. And so I'm I fall in the clearly the more visionary piece of it. And so I'm looking for my operating piece to come alongside. We're going to, we're going to, we're going to wrap up but first we got a couple rapid fire questions.
Frank Sweeney [00:22:39]:
Oh no, I didn't even know. That's hard.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:22:42]:
Okay, so Beth, we'll start with you. Final four is in town. Who do you got?
Beth Neely [00:22:50]:
North Carolina. Is that the wrong answer? That's the only one I know that's playing North Carolina State, but okay, close.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:23:00]:
What's the best leadership book that you would gift to a friend?
Beth Neely [00:23:04]:
None. If I need to explain that I can.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:23:07]:
But yeah, I need a why.
Beth Neely [00:23:10]:
So I'll tell you why. I think leadership books, this is my opinion. I know and putting my opinion out there publicly, but I think they're nonsense. Here's why. Great leaders if what is a trait of a great leader? Trust. Let's throw out trust. Would you agree that trust is a great trait? A trait of a great leader? What book are you going to read, Sean, that you're going to learn how to be trustworthy? So I'm going to tell you what I think about leadership. Great leaders, I think come from who you are, how you were raised, some of the, if you want to call them, trials and tribulations that maybe you went through through your life and through your career and things that you learned along the way and when you fell down.
Beth Neely [00:24:02]:
I truly believe that leadership. You cannot pick up good to great from Jim Collins and read all about these great leaders and think that you can become a great leader because you read a book. I do believe that it is something you're passionate about and I do believe great leaders are made that way just through life. And it's okay that not everybody is that great leader because we all couldn't be great leaders. Imagine the world today if we all were. Everybody has a purpose and you were talking about it from traction. I was going to talk to you about chapter four if we got to that question. But.
Beth Neely [00:24:39]:
But everyone has something they're really good at and you. But I am a true believer that you cannot learn how to be a good leader by reading a book. If you want to know how to do great things from an operations perspective or how to do specific tasks because you need to create some type of widget or build a metric, read a book. But if you want to see a great leader, it's typically the people that have learned and have become that just over their life experiences. So my answer is none.
Frank Sweeney [00:25:13]:
I second that, and I think that's a great no.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:25:14]:
You're not happy? I'm not even gonna ask the question. Favorite Mexican restaurant in Arizona.
Beth Neely [00:25:19]:
You're asking me like basketball. I don't like Mexican either, but I do Thai Sun. That's my favorite Thai restaurant. I'm a tough one.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:25:28]:
Sorry, getting cooked on interview number 10.
Frank Sweeney [00:25:32]:
Last one for the day.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:25:33]:
If there's one lesson you want to pass down, what would it be?
Beth Neely [00:25:37]:
Be present as a leader. Be present. I have three rules that I've implemented in my mind and all through my career. And one of those rules is be present. Be present to who's speaking to you. Be present in your one on ones. Be present when you're participating in conversations. When I am in a meeting every morning with my team, Sandeep can attest to that.
Beth Neely [00:26:02]:
I am not looking down and on my phone, nor am I am I multitasking. Be present. I believe great leaders are present. They're giving everyone the attention that they need to be given. And like he said, it's a gift. It's a gift. Be present for those who need you. And that would be a lesson, I would say.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:26:23]:
Okay, so in the words of Ryan Murray, I'm gonna double click on that real quick because that is so important. Being present. I will not publicly name CIOs and even other people just in general. But when you're having a conversation, if your head is down here, your leadership capital goes down in my bank. Big time. Big time. Just be respectful and just say, hey, I'm actually. I gotta take a call.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:26:48]:
Or. Yes. And so I love that. Frank O.
Beth Neely [00:26:51]:
Let's go, Frank. Let's see.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:26:53]:
I can't follow that.
Frank Sweeney [00:26:55]:
Okay, Final four, Yukim.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:26:59]:
Okay, back to back. You want that?
Frank Sweeney [00:27:00]:
Yeah. No, I don't want that. I know that's what's going to happen.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:27:04]:
Okay, Wolf pack, since you both agree the leadership book is like a Frisbee, that thing is gone. Okay, so these shoes, Lakers or asu?
Frank Sweeney [00:27:14]:
Lakers.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:27:15]:
No, asu. Best Mexican restaurant in Arizona.
Frank Sweeney [00:27:21]:
Teepees.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:27:22]:
Okay, where is it?
Frank Sweeney [00:27:23]:
It's on Indian School and close to 32nd street and 40th Street. Yeah.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:27:28]:
One lesson you want to pass down.
Frank Sweeney [00:27:30]:
Authentic. Being authentic. Really strange. I know this Beth would be like, really frank. But early in my career, I took the approach that I had to be a certain way to be a leader. And it wasn't until I was like 43ish that I realized what makes me different is a superpower, not a detractor. And once I went all in with Myself, I became so much better at doing things. But for first, all these years, I thought there was a stereotype of leader.
Frank Sweeney [00:28:10]:
You don't say off the cuff comments. You don't do this. You don't. You're not joking all the time. You can't do. You can't just do all these things and still be considered serious. That's wrong. People want authenticity.
Frank Sweeney [00:28:24]:
They want to say, yeah, he's corny, but God, I really do something about that guy. He's different. And once I decided to do that, I became an attractor. For all those years, I think I was a detractor because people. Who wants to be around a stiff? Yeah, you really, right? Really? Yeah. But I wasn't that way, so it almost was. I played the worst role in the movie for 20 years. And now they said, frank, you could play this role yourself and just go have at it.
Frank Sweeney [00:28:55]:
And I did it. And it was like, oh my God. It changed everything. Because now all of a sudden people are like, why weren't you here before? Why did you just. It's because before I was trying to be someone that wasn't. And I think authenticity is the greatest thing you can do.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:29:09]:
Did you watch Frozen? Let it go.
Frank Sweeney [00:29:12]:
Yes, Let it go. Yes, I did. That's right.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:29:15]:
Awesome.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:29:16]:
Thank you for coming on the Public Sector show by Tech Tables. Yeah, Frozen just made it in at the last podcast. The last minute. Thank you, Beth.
Beth Neely [00:29:24]:
Thank you.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:29:24]:
Appreciate you both.
Frank Sweeney [00:29:25]:
Thank you.
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:29:26]:
Hey, what's up everybody?
Joe Toste, Founder @ TechTables [00:29:26]:
This is Joe Tossy from Techtables.com and you're listening to the Public Sector show by Tech Tables. This podcast features human centric stories from public sector CIOs, CISOs and technology leaders across federal, state, city, county and higher education. You'll gain valuable insights into current issues and challenges faced by top leaders through interviews, speaking engagements, live podcast tour events. We offer you a behind the mic look at the opportunities top leaders are seeing today. And to make sure you never miss an episode, head over to Spotify and Apple Podcasts. Hit that follow button and leave a quick rating. Just tap the number of stars that you think this show deserves.
